Victor Antonio on How to Block Objections and Close More Deals
Today I have the privilege of talking to a sales icon. A man who has dedicated himself to mastering his craft. First as a producer, then as a trainer, and now as a thought leader that is dedicated to helping sales professionals thrive.
Victor Antonio of the Sellinger Group has spent 20 years as a top-tier B2B sales exec. He’s the guy Verizon, Citrix, and Sprint call when they need sales insight, and he’s even cut his own Spike TV show.
Part strategist, part philosopher, part artist, and 100% hustler, I am incredibly excited to have an early influencer in my career on the podcast today.
In our lively chat, Victor breaks down what he calls “Response Block Selling” which is one of the fastest ways to increase your close rate. Not only does he cover what it will and won’t do, but he also walks us through how to block the most common objections a salesperson faces.
In case you missed it, check out last weeks episode:
- (01:26) – Background
- (01:34) – How Victor first got into sales.
- (02:25) – Making the jump into sales training.
- (04:16) – Positioning
- (04:54) – Victor shares and illustrates his thoughts on positioning and differentiation with a real-life story.
- (11:37) – ‘The Challenger’ profile.
- (12:12) – Understanding value.
- (12:24) – Qualifiable value.
- (12:34) – Quantifiable value.
- (13:17) – Victor uses the example of social media to illustrate that everything can be quantified.
- (13:42) – Analytics is the key.
- (15:07) – The right approach to take when challenged by a client to quantify a number.
- (16:46) – Knowledge of industry norms.
- (17:01) – Using cross-sectional numbers from different industries.
- (18:04) – Response Block Selling
- (18:47) – Victor gives caveats of what response block selling will or won’t do.
- (18:47) – The quality of your product comes first.
- (19:02) – Realistic pricing.
- (19:11) – Your support service.
- (19:55) – Victor illustrates response block selling with a story from his career.
- (21:06) – Victor’s structure for handling customer objections.
- (23:11) – Response block selling in action.
- (26:26) – Selling is an iteration process.
- (30:40) – Discussing the role of charisma in sales.
- (32:32) – The problems with underfunding your sales and marketing.
- (18:47) – Victor gives caveats of what response block selling will or won’t do.
- (37:16) – Specific Objections
- (37:17) – Responding to price shoppers.
- (39:09) – Breaking down the numbers. Customers who will never buy, always buy and those who are uncertain.
- (40:22) – How the quality of your questions equates to your perceived value.
- (41:36) – Creating urgency and creating certainty.
- (42:53) – Building trust.
- (43:21) – Responding to a deferral to the other authority.
- (45:40) – Training the customer to speak on your behalf.
- (47:34) – “I’ll think about it.”
- (48:54) – Three reasons people aren’t sure about a purchase.
- (50:43) – The fourth ‘if’.
- (37:17) – Responding to price shoppers.
- (52:16) – Commercial Break
- (52:32) – Details on Victor’s workshop at the PM Grow Summit.
- (55:06) – The psychology of managing a sales force.
- (58:17) – What time do you wake up each morning?
- (58:22) – Coffee or tea?
- (58:23) – Favorite airline?
- (58:26) – The best city in the world is…?
- (58:33) – Your top travel hack to make life easier on the road?
- (58:40) – What one mentor has had the greatest impact on your life?
- (58:48) – What one book has impacted you the most?
- (58:54) – What’s the best keynote you’ve ever heard from another speaker?
- (59:19) – What do you think is the best keynote that you’ve ever personally given?
- (59:51) – If you could do it all over again, what advice would you have given to your younger self at the beginning of your sales career?
- (1:00:23) – Are entrepreneurs born or bred?
- Response Block Selling – Victor’s latest book.
- Life or Debt (15:07) – Victor’s show on Spike where he helps families with their financial strategy.
- PM Grow Summit – Property management entrepreneur live event conference.
- Grant Cardone (10:17) – Entrepreneur and sales trainer that Victor has worked with.
- “Sales is certainty.”
- The Challenger Sale, Matthew Dixon, Brent Adamson (11:34) – Learning resource recommended by Victor.
- SPIN Selling, Neil Rackham (11:40) – The number one book on Victor’s bookshelf.
- Sales Benchmark Index (30:40) – Management consulting firm specializing in sales and marketing.
- Making the Number (30:40) – Resource related to the discussion on charisma.
- Zig Ziglar (58:45) – Marketing guru who Victor named as the mentor who had the greatest impact on his life.
- Atlast Shrugged, Ayn Rand (58:48) – Book Victor rates as the most impactful on his life.
- Larry Winget (59:00) – Keynote speaker Victor rates as the best he’s ever heard.
- Victor Antonio: “Best motivational speech ever” (59:39) – Keynote speech Victor rates as his best.
- Outliers: The Story of Success Malcolm Gladwell (1:01:42) – Book Victor references to back his point on nurture versus nature.
Where to learn more:
Jordan: 0:00:00.6 Welcome closers. Today we have another episode of The Profitable Property Management Podcast coming at you. This is Season Two on sales, and I’m your host Jordan Muela.
And every week I interview world-class property management entrepreneurs and industry experts who share actionable insights that you can use today to help you grow your property management empire.
Whether you manage 100 units or 1000, this broadcast is designed to help you see the big picture and give you the tools and tactics that you need to get to the next level.
0:00:30.4 Today I have the privilege of talking to a sales icon. A man who has dedicated himself to mastering his craft. First as a producer, then as a trainer, and now as a thought leader that is dedicated to helping sales professionals thrive.
0:00:49.2 Victor Antonio spent 20 years as a top-tier B2B sales exec. He’s the guy Verizon, Citrix, and Sprint call when they need sales insight. And he’s even cut his own Spike TV show.
Part strategist, part philosopher, part artist and 100% hustler, I am incredibly excited to have an early influence in my career on the podcast today.
Welcome to the show Victor.
Victor: 0:01:12.3 Jordan, thank you very much man. I’m super excited to be on this show, so thank you for having me.
Jordan: 0:01:16.4 Well, it’s an absolute pleasure. We first met digitally and now you’re going to be our opening keynote at PM Grow in January, which I’m super excited about.
0:01:26.4 So you’re going to be bringing the heat there, but for those that don’t know, give us a little bit of your background. How did you get started in sales?
Victor: 0:01:34.9 Quick background. So I’m originally from Chicago. My mother said, you know, “Son, go to school, get the education, get the J-O-B.”
So I went to school, got an engineering degree – electrical engineering degree. And an MBA. Right.
0:01:49.0 Went into corporate America, started to do the right engineering thing, realized after awhile, Jordan, I didn’t like it. Right?
So I moved around a little bit and I finally landed on sales. 0:01:59.2 When I landed on sales it was like, you know, it was like I hit my hyper-pad in life. And that’s how – that’s the quick version of how I got into sales. And so I really enjoyed it.
0:01:59.2 Since I started out in the B2B space, I had a technical background and they were looking for a sales person with a technical background. I also speak Spanish. 0:02:17.2 So they were looking for those two things.
And man, I just fit the mold and my wife was like, “Yeah, why don’t you go for it, let’s see what happens.” And you know, we haven’t looked back every since.
Jordan: 0:02:25.7 And then how did you make the jump from there to getting into sales training?
Victor: 0:02:29.3 The – so, May 9th, 2001, 3:48 p.m. to be exact, I called it quits.
So I was president of sales and marketing. It was a 420 million dollar company. And you know, like in life, Jordan, you know, I just hit everything I wanted to hit. I did everything I wanted to do. I’d travelled literally globally internationally, I was very successful, but I felt – I don’t know, I wanted to do something different.
0:02:54.1 And so I didn’t initially get into sales training, I actually made a conscious decision to reach back into the neighbourhoods and I started speaking to high schools and colleges.
And what I wanted to do is motivate, you know, young kids to make it through high school, make it through college, graduate and get a great job. 0:03:13.0 And so I did that for like maybe three, four years.
But then, you know, the pull of where I – my home was was sales. So around 2003 and 2004 is when I decided to say, “You know what? We need to get back into sales because that’s where I belong.”
And that’s where I made the decision to move from being a speaker to going back to being a sales trainer.
0:03:31.0 And, you know, the compelling reason was, I hated the way other people trained. Do you know what I mean?
0:03:38.0 You’ve been in those courses where you’ve got these trainers who train you and you just want to fall asleep.
Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Victor: 0:03:41.2 Well, I yeah, you know what I’m talking about. I wanted to do it different, Jordan. And for those of you who watch my videos, you’ll see what I mean.
0:03:48.4 I try to keep it exciting, but I also – using – borrowing your phrase, I try to you know, create “actionable insights” that people go, “Ah that’s what I need to do.”
0:03:56.7 And when I see those light bulbs going off in the crowd when I’m talking to them, and they’re motivated because they’re learning.
0:04:01.9 Not motivated because they’re excited and they’re on this placebo, they’re motivated because they have the right tools. 0:04:06.8 And I think that is what really charges me.
Jordan: 0:04:11.5 Yeah, you’re bridging the context of things that people can not just get wowed by but actually use in their day to day basis.
0:04:16.3 I want to take it all the way home right out of the gate. I just want to go straight into positioning.
Victor: Do it Jordan, do it.
Jordan: 0:04:25.5 The people that I work with, the people that I help, Victor, these are small businesses. They’re service based businesses, and if you put 100 of them in a room, at times it can be challenging to differentiate one business from the other.
0:04:42.8 They’re all good at their craft. They’re focused on the craft. They’re experts in the craft, but when it comes to that consumer facing positioning, they struggle to know what it means to actually differentiate. 0:04:54.2 What are your thoughts on positioning and differentiation?
Victor: 0:04:55.8 So let me give you a quick story. So we live in Alfreda, Georgia right? Been in this house for 14 years. And I remember this was the first house we saw. And my wife was like, “Ah, this is it.” I’m like, “Sweetie, we need to look at more of them.” Right?
Victor: 0:05:10.5 And so, this – when we bought it, this was like, I think a 14 year old house already. So it’s 28 years old. So I was like, “Ah, I don’t want a used house, I want a new house. You know, I want a brand new, shiny pony type of thing.” Right?
0:05:22.1 And so we looked at other houses and sure enough, the real estate agent that was with us – we would walk into a house and Jordan, I swear to you he did this on like the second or third house – we walk in, he walked in front of us, right?
He opened the door, looked at it, and said, “No. Not for you.”
And we’re like, “What? Are we going to look at it? We drove all the way over here. Aren’t we going to look at it?”
He goes, “No, this is not for you, let’s go.”
And I was like, you know, “Who is this guy?”
0:05:47.5 And every time we walked into a different house, and I remember one in particular I liked and he said – because I remember saying, “This house seems overpriced.”
He goes, “No. It’s not.” He said, “I’ll tell you why. Let me walk you through it.”
And I remember we walked into the kitchen, he says, “See that? Granite, back-splash,” he described it right. “That’s $20,000 upgrade.
See that right there in the next room?” He points something else out, “That right there is a $15,000 upgrade and you’re not going to get it in-house in 0:06:13.5 [Inaudible].” And he kept doing that right?
And then so when we circled back, he wouldn’t let us make a decision.
He says, “Now that you’ve looked at,” again, 10, 11, whatever it was, you know, he says, “Let’s narrow it down to three.”
And I remember I picked you know, some that were out of our profile that we told him.
He goes, “No, that’s not what you said you wanted. You said you wanted this.”
I’m like, who is this guy? Right? But he was reminding me of what my goals were. Because he knew them up front.
And so finally, we come back to this house. Right? 0:06:44.2 And my wife is all in. You know, because she’s like, “Man this has the bones.” Because she’s all about the bones, right? The structure.
And I remember we walked outside, he was selling me on different points, but then he says, “I want you to step over here.” And we went into the backyard, where – by the way, we’re backed up into like a 100 acre farm. Right? And he says, “Stand right here and look at your house.”
0:07:05.1 And so I look at the house and I say, “Yeah, it’s a nice looking house.”
He says, “No, no. Just stand there and just absorb it.”
And I’m like, what is he talking about?
0:07:12.0 Then he finally says, “What do you hear?”
And I go, “Nothing.”
He says, “It’s the middle of the day Victor and there’s no noise. You can’t hear the traffic…” You know, and he was doing this stuff throughout.
0:07:25.7 What’s my point of all this? When people tell me that they can’t sell, several things are happening in this market, Jordan. You know as well as I do that the timeline of selling is always going to be broken up into pre-internet and post-internet.
0:07:38.6 Pre-internet, the sales person had the information, the consumer wanted the information. So the consumer was willing to listen to the sales person to garner that information in order to make a better decision.
0:07:48.8 Fast-forward post-internet, everybody has information. Depending on who you believe in terms of studies, the buyers can be 57-70-80% into the buying cycle, which means they’re smart people. Right? 0:08:01.5 They know what they want.
So they’re not looking for a relationship, so to speak, even though that’s part of it. But they’re looking for a transaction. They know what they want.
0:08:08.6 And so, what is our job then? Our job as a sales person, is to say, “You know what? I know you know a lot, but I think you’re missing a couple of things. Like for example, you see that granite counter top? That’s a $20,000 upgrade Mr. KnowItAll.”
0:08:22.8 You know, and that’s what customers want. If you tell a customer things they already know, then you’re not positioning yourself as an expert.
They go, “Yeah I knew that.” 0:08:32.6 The only way to position yourself is an expert is to tell them something they don’t know. 0:08:36.5
So if I may introduce two phrases, there’s product parity then there’s information parity. Right? Today we’ve achieved product parity on almost all products. Right?
In other words, you can’t tell the difference, Jordan, between one product and another product. You simply can’t.
0:08:50.4 Anybody – but if there is a difference, that difference won’t last because somebody will develop it you know, within two months. Right?
So then we have information parity. Well, believe it or not, information parity is almost impossible to achieve. What does that mean?
0:09:02.3 This is where the advantage is Jordan. I think today, the sales person is more valuable than ever. Information parity is basically when we both know the same. But if I know a little bit more than you, Jordan, you know what I mean?
If I – using your word – if I can use my insight and show you something that you haven’t thought about, that might help you reduce your costs right? That might help you position this better for long term, whatever it may be, then all of a sudden, I’m listening to you.
0:09:30.9 So my definition of insight, that I’ve always defined, is information beyond the obvious. 0:09:35.1 That simple definition. Information beyond the obvious. 0:09:36.9 What customers want today is information beyond the obvious. That is how you position yourself.
Jordan: 0:09:43.0 Wow. Guys, I’m taking notes myself right now. That was so incredibly cogent. I could not agree more.
What I hear you saying is that there is a necessary presumption that you must bring to the sales interaction where you assume that you are the person that is going to lead this person where they need to go.
0:10:01.1 You assume it’s on you to have an opinion about the best outcome for the buyer. And that is the position from which you interact with them.
As opposed to being a 100% reactive and basically just describing a list of bullet points of what you do.
Victor: 0:10:17.3 Yeah. No I – it really is. You know, my friend – you probably know him, Grant Cardone.
Jordan: Yep, absolutely.
Victor: 0:10:23.9 So, you know, I’ve worked with him. You know, my university is on his university, and so we work well.
And we did a three-day boot camp this past March together. Right? And the one word – the one thing he just kept saying, he says, “Sales is all about certainty.” That’s his – that was like you know, his thing. He was like, “It’s about certainty.”
0:10:42.9 There’s two types of certainty going on. One is you’ve got to be certain that you know what you’re talking about, that you know you have the value that they want. Right?
0:10:51.8 But, the customer lacks certainty. And so, if you’ve got a scale on one side there’s certainty and the other side there is anxiety.
0:10:59.0 Your job is to raise that customer certainty. 0:11:02.9 You know? And I like the way he positioned that phrase because that’s really it in a nutshell right?
0:11:07.2 They’re unsure of what they want to buy. You know, so we need to help them make that buying decision.
And the only way you help people make a buying decision is not by pressuring them, right? Not by you know, hard selling them. It’s by making them more certain of their decision.
0:11:23.6 Which is what the real estate guy did to me 14 years ago. He was just making me certain. He said, “No, you need to look at this.”
0:11:30.9 For those who – have you read the book, The Challenger Sale? 0:11:34.2 Resource.
Jordan: 0:11:34.6 I have not. I’m familiar but I have not read it.
Victor: 0:11:37.4 The number two book on my shelf. SPIN Selling by Neil Rackham 0:11:40.9 is number one. The Challenger Sale is number two. Right?
And, you know, The Challenger Sale talks about it. It’s like the first empirical study on selling since like 1987, right. This – it was released in 2011 but still valid.
And in the – The Challenger Sale is a profile. 0:11:56.0 There’s five different profiles but ‘The Challenger’ is a person that challenges. Isn’t a jerk, but challenges the customer’s assumptions.
0:12:04.6 In such a way that the customer goes, “Huh. Again, I didn’t think about that. I never thought about that way. Never even thought about considering that right there.”
0:12:12.5 And that’s when you sell value. You often hear people talk about you know, sell value. And I say, “Well what does that mean?” And there’s two types of value. There’s qualifiable value and quantifiable value.
0:12:24.5 Qualifiable value sounds like this, “Ours is faster?” “How much faster?” “Really fast. It’s really big.” “How big?” “Really big.” Right? “It’s huge.” “How huge?” “Really huge.” That’s not quantifiable.
0:12:34.5 Quantifiable says, “Look, you buy my product, I don’t care what you’re using, I’ll tell you where you’re going to save money. If you buy this, I’ll show where you’re going to make more money. I’m going to show you and I’m going to quantify that number for you.”
0:12:44.6 And I’ve had people challenge me, Jordan. They say, “Victor, there’s certain things you can’t quantify.” I say, “Point it out.” I will quantify anything you throw my way, Jordan. I’ll take that challenge on with anybody. I’ll find a number.
Jordan: 0:12:59.4 Victor, the first thing that comes to my mind is social media. I’m a social media marketing expert. I mean, there are certain categories of goods and items, personal development would be another example. Walk me through some of those squishier use-cases.
Victor: 0:13:17.1 So, so – and by the way, I’ve worked with a couple of social media companies who says I can’t quantify the number.
0:13:30.6 I’m like, “Of course you can quantify it.” If you’re tracking the analytics, if you’ve got the data – and that’s really the key, Jordan. Most people can’t quantify because they’re not tracking it properly. Right?
0:13:30.6 And so, when I worked with a social media company – the company’s called YepSir, and you know, they were doing the same thing.
0:13:37.1 People would challenge them. They would walk in – I said, “Well quantify the value of this.”
0:13:42.1 I say, “Well ok, let’s look at your analytics.” Typically what I would do is I would ask the customer, I said, “Show me your web traffic.
And we’d talk about unique visitors, we’d talk about visitors. Right? There’s a big difference right? You need visitors visiting right? We talk conversion rates. What are you converting. Right? What’s your average order size. What are they buying. Right?
And so we gather that number. Right? Whatever that number is. I said, “Now, if your conversion rate is such that all I need to do is track how much traffic my social media posts are dragging to your website right?
0:14:09.7 So if I tag my social media posts, right? In such a way that I can track it, then I know how much traffic I’m driving to your site.
0:14:18.3 And if you’re telling me the conversion rate is X, well then I can quantify to some extent, that number of how – the justification for that product or service.
0:14:26.7 And that’s where I would start. But most people can’t track it because they don’t have the data. They’re not tracking.
0:14:34.0 And so when – so what happens is, a sales person walks in there trying to sell social media and the guy says, “Quantify it for me.”
“Well, you know, on average, you know, Jordan, it’s going to be this much and you know, it really ranges and you know, we think there will be a 10% bump on average.”
You know, they’ll do that dance right? 0:14:50.7 And the customer just what? Shuts down. Has no clue.
0:14:55.1 And all of a sudden, the customer asks you, “Quantify that,” pushes you back on your mental heels and you’re like, “ah ba ah bah, well, ….” And you start spewing all kinds of crap that makes no sense. Right? 0:15:07.7
Victor: 0:15:07.5 And they can detect that within seconds. Right? But now, what if we take this approach? What if we take this approach?
In terms of quantifying and positioning, let’s tie them together. 0:15:18.6 Customer says to me, “Victor, quantify social media for me.”
I say, “I’d be more than happy to.” I said, “Let’s look at your numbers first. Let me ask you a question.”
0:15:27.8 Because as a sales person, what do we do? We take control of the conversation right? When they ask you a question.
I said, “Do you have your data in front of you?”
0:15:35.4 And they typically always say, like 99% of the time, “Ah no.”
0:15:38.2 “Can you get the numbers real quick?”
And they’re like, “Ah, we’ll try.” Right?
0:15:43.6 And so sure enough, I’ll wait ten, fifteen minutes, they don’t show up – I said – but you know, I ask them again, “But on average, how much traffic do you get a day?”
And I ask for unique visitors, I ask for also for again visitors, I ask for page views, duration on the website, so forth and so on. Right? 0:16:00.1 This is stuff I can work with. And they don’t know.
And the first thing I do is I tell them, I said, “You’re asking me to give you a number when you don’t even know your own analytics. Which means, problem number one. We need to fix that.” 0:16:15.5 Bro, did I just take control of that conversation?
Victor: 0:16:18.1 Did I just ball and hammer them? And by the way, I’m doing it from a position of love, right? I put it that way. Because I’m trying to help you. You know?
Let’s track it. Let’s see if we can help you. But if you don’t know your numbers, because that’s my whole thing – you know, it’s like on my show, “Life or Debt” on Spike 0:16:34.0 Right?
I always ask couples, what’s your number? Tell me your numbers, you’ve got to know your numbers. And most companies don’t know their numbers. 0:16:42.4 And so that’s what I would begin to quantify.
0:16:46.4 And by the way, in the back of my mind, if I’m a social media expert, I have the industry norms, right? In this industry, property management, people who have websites have this conversion rate. That’s the industry norm. Right?
0:17:01.0 I would also have some numbers as cross-sectional numbers in terms of across different industries. That’s this number.
My question to you is, “Mr. Customer, what’s your number?” 0:17:11.4 So already now we have a problem. If his conversion number is lower than the average or the norm, that’s a problem. And maybe I’ve highlighted something for them. 0:17:20.5 Maybe your website stinks. 0:17:21.1
Jordan: 0:17:23.8 Well it’s a way to generate insight. You’re absolutely right. The discover process, leaning into the discovery process, what are the benefits?
First, you have something to work with. Second off, like, like you said, if the customer doesn’t know any of that information, you’re now in the position of actually pointing that out and generating those insights. I couldn’t agree more.
0:17:41.5 You also said, specificity is key. Any good offer is specific. That is is the opposite of, “We’re number one. We’ve been in the business forever.”
0:17:51.7 There’s so much generic, banal phraseology that is not specific, eschewing that. Getting off of that worthless crutch is one of the first processes to good positioning.
0:18:04.2 Now, I want to kind of dive into response block selling. This was, of all the things that you talk about, and I do consider you to be prolific, in the sense that you do address many, many sales topics.
Response block selling is one thing that you’re known for. 0:18:19.9 It was my entry point. 0:18:21.9 Can you give me some caveats of what response block selling will or won’t do?
Because obviously, if you’re selling garbage, if the rest of your sales process is broken, this is going to be a superficial band-aid.
So what caveats on the front side would you give around when response block selling will actually move the needle for a sales organization?
Victor: 0:18:47.3 Well let’s just assume – let’s be positive about this and assume that you have to have a decent product. So let’s call that the first caveat, right? You have to have a competitive product with a competitive price.
0:18:56.8 If your product is, as you say, crap, well I can’t help you, nothing will help you. Right? Because in the long run you’ll lose.
0:19:02.0 If your pricing is so out of bounds, like not even a little expensive, or a whole lot expensive, just way out of the park, they’re not going to buy. Right?
0:19:11.3 If your service supporting the product is horrible, this won’t help. This helps people who are trying to look for that 1% or 2% differential than the other customer, right? Because, as we know, in the sales process today, Jordan, it’s the conversation that we’re having with the customer. Much like the social media example we talked about.
It is that type of conversation that makes a difference between buying and not buying from you or your competitor or stay with the incumbent, right? 0:19:38.9 And so it’s having those conversations. I think this is powerful.
Response block selling in a nutshell is about reducing buyer resistance. 0:19:47.2 Right? It’s reducing buyer resistance. And this is like, you know – give me two minutes to set up this story, and I’ll do it quickly.
Jordan: Hit it.
Victor: 0:19:55.7 Seminar company contacted me back in 2006, I think that’s the year, 2006. Said, “Victor, we want you to come out. We sell a $3000 product, a $6000 product, it’s a software product, what we want you to do is train on the product, you know, train people in the room, and then close them.” Right?
I said, “Ok.” 0:20:13.0 So long story short, I started doing it and my close rate was like 17%, 18%. Their average was 33%. I was struggling. Right?
And so this guy named Clint Sanderson, considered the guru of the company, right, says, “Victor, I know what’s wrong.” He says, “Listen, people have reasons why they don’t want to buy in their heads. But they’re not going to mention it, because they may be embarrassed.”
For example, if I’m selling a software product, nobody is going to say, “I don’t understand, that looks really technical.”
Nobody’s going to say that because nobody wants to look that stupid. Especially with 100 people in the room.
He says, “Your job is…” and here’s what he said, “is to raise the objection and then tie it down.”
And I said, “Well how do you do that?”
He’s like, “Well, I don’t know, you just got to raise it and then tie it down.”
It’s like the dude didn’t help me at all. Just repeated himself, right? 0:20:57.6 And then this part I’m making up because I don’t remember, but a month or two later I came up with this structure of how to do this. And I’ll lay it out for those of you who are listening.
0:21:06.6 Every time you are speaking one-on-one with a customer, or one to a group, doesn’t matter, there’re typically five to seven objections that they have in their heads. Right? Five to seven objections that they have in their head. 0:21:19.6 There’s never really more than seven.
If you really analyze them you can probably break them and categorize them into seven. Knowing that, I show in my book, you know, that you’re going to provide a link to at the end of this conversation, Jordan, that psychologically, and this is the power point, so really focus in on what I’m about to say if you’re listening in – if the customer actually verbalizes the objection, your price is too high. 0:21:46.1
“Now’s not a good time. That looks difficult to use.” The chances of you closing that deal have just dropped dramatically.
Let me say it again, when the customer verbalizes the objection, your chances drop dramatically, because now you have to defend that position. And when you’re defending a position like that, you’re losing the conversation.
0:22:05.0 And this is why that whole ‘A, B, C’ thing, “Always be closing” — you know, again, it fits in certain areas right? In selling. If you’re doing a more transactional, commoditized selling, ‘A, B, C’ does work.
But when you’re selling a complex system or something expensive, right? Property. It doesn’t work. 0:22:21.9 People don’t want to be pressured into buying. It’s actually people have something called, ‘sales reaction’ which means they get negative on you.
0:22:27.3 So response block selling says, “Look, we don’t want them to verbalize it because if they verbalize the objection, your price is too high, they’ve taken a position and you’re less likely to shake them from that position.”
But, if I raise the objection, I resolve the objection and then I tie down by getting them to agree that it’s not expensive, I just reduced the resistance a little bit.
0:22:51.2 For example, when I was doing the software program demonstration, I knew that one of the objections was, “That looks hard to use.” Right? That’s the objection. “That looks hard to use.”
People aren’t going to tell me that, but they’re going to walk out of the room and say, “Let me think about it Victor,” but what they’re really thinking is, “It’s hard to use, that’s why ‘I need to think about it’ is just an excuse to get out of the room.”
0:23:11.7 From the front of the room, what I would do, Jordan, I would say something like this, I would show them a couple things, I said, “Look,” I said, “many of you may be looking at this and going, ‘you know, that looks really hard to use’.”
Notice I just raised the objection. And I’ll say – then I’ll say – offer to resolve, “But if I can show that it really isn’t that tough, would you at least be open to it?”
And most people would just go, “Yeah, sure.” Mentally they go, “Yeah sure, show me Victor.”
0:23:36.1 Then I move into the third phase. So, raise the objection, offer to resolve, and demo.
I said, “Look, all you gotta do – if you wanted to do this, you would click right there, you would drag, you drop, you cut and paste. And boom, there it is.”
So I just demoed something. 0:23:57.2 Then I would tie it down like this, “Based on what I’ve just shown you, do you think with a little practice and our support that you can do it?”
And if I’m talking one-on-one? The person says, “Yeah, I think I can do it.” And all of a sudden I just tied down that objection.
Here’s why: If I agree now that it’s not that hard, I’m not – at the end of the sales process am I going to go, “Victor, it’s too hard.” I’ve just agreed that it’s not hard. So I can’t use that as an objection at the close.
0:24:25.6 And so imagine if you’re listening to this. You know the five to seven typical objections – what if during that 45 minute conversation, whatever it may be, you start blocking these objections throughout the conversation.
In other words, you plan out your conversation. Now and again you can still freestyle, you know what I mean – your conversation, but you know there’s certain objections you have to tie down if you want to close the buyer. And that’s what response block selling is.
0:24:49.7 So my close rate went from 17%, definitely hit 33%. I was floating in the mid-50s, and maybe even 60s and a couple times I spiked above that. But I think around 50-60% was a good range to be in.
Jordan: 0:25:02.0 and this is a group full of, essentially strangers that have not met you prior to this training, is that correct?
Victor: 0:25:07.9 That is correct, good point. They’d never met me.
Jordan: 0:25:10.8 That is insane. I feel like what you have articulated is so simple and almost – it’s almost deceptively simple, but there’s so much power in that.
0:25:20.8 First addressing the problem and then secondarily, the turn there is opening them up to the possibility that the problem could be resolved.
To me, that’s just like across the board, just a life lesson of – you’re in a situation, you feel like there’s an intractable problem, the first step to overcoming it is opening up your mind to the possibility that the problem can be overcome.
You’re asking for permission to people consider and then you’re giving the demonstration.
And lastly, that tie down. 0:25:52.9 And at the moment of the tie down, what happens if somebody says, “No. I’m not satisfied, Victor. You didn’t fully address my concern.”
Victor: 0:26:01.1 Ok. And again, so like anything in sales, you loop it back in.
He says, “No, I still don’t think it’s that easy.”
I say, “Well tell me what you want to build?” You know what I mean? I could’ve said that.
But the thing is, if you do this enough times – let’s say that, let’s say that for the first ten – let’s go even exaggerate, the first 20 times, you’re going to get kind of belligerent response every time. Right? Let’s assume that.
0:26:26.5 And here’s what will happen by the 20th time – you know what to anticipate, you know what they’re going to have problems with, and by the 20th time, you’ll know what to demo.
0:26:36.5 So for example, if my first demo was too simple, click, drag, drop, the whole bit – I’ll tell myself, the next time I present – ’cause this guy just turned me down – the next time I present, what I’m going to do is add that, what he just asked me about, because I’ve heard it two or three times already.
0:26:53.3 Because isn’t that what selling is? It’s an iteration process, right? We iterate our pitch. We start adding things.
So this, you know – the response block selling is really a structure within a structure.
And so, demo piece can change. Even your wording can change within that structure. But after awhile you get it.
0:27:09.6 And by the way, before I forget to mention, Jordan, there is a caveat to this: Never raise an objection that isn’t there. This is important. 0:27:18.0 So if an objection is never raised, don’t raise it. Ok. That’ll just hurt you.
So – but psychologically, I want to emphasize one thing, Jordan, that when you raise the objection, mentally, the prospect is thinking, one: “Man, I’m glad he raised it because I was too afraid to ask.” Two, that person’s thinking, “Man, he’s being pretty upfront.” Right?
0:27:42.5 Like for example, on pricing, I’m not the cheapest sales trainer out there. I’ll tell people, I’ll say, “Look, many people tell me my sales training is expensive and I can understand that. But if I can show you in the long run how it’s going to benefit you, you’re going to get your money back faster, would you at least be open to considering my services.”
And they’re like, it’s almost like a challenge, like, “Yeah go ahead Victor. Show me.”
0:28:02.8 And then I would demo something, right? Whether it’s a case study, walk them through their products. “Tell me what you’re selling, tell me what your close rate is, tell me how much money you’re missing, tell me how many deals you’ve lost.
0:28:14.7 And by the way, Jordan, that’s another thing I do when I do my pitch. You know.
When people say, “Well, tell me how you can help me sell.”
“Well, let me understand the problem. What’s your close rate?” You know, “How many opportunities do you have in the pipeline every month?” You know, “What’s your average order size?” Right? “Tell me what your sales cycle looks like.”
0:28:30.4 And you know what they typically say? “Ah, I don’t know.” “Ah, I think…” “I don’t know, I think…”
And what do I do? I pounce right on that. I say, “Wait a minute, you want me to give you a number, but you don’t even have numbers for me to analyze.”
I say, “I find that a little bit unfair. So let’s walk through it. Why don’t you know the average order size?” And you know what I mean?
0:28:51.1 And all I’m doing, Jordan, is not being a jerk – I’m challenging. According to the challenger, I’m just pushing them back on their heels gently so they’ll respect my position as an authority in the world of selling. 0:29:04.8 [Inaudible – cross talk] property management.
Jordan: 0:29:05.6 Absolutely. I couldn’t agree – that’s exactly what I was about to say. For those of you that are listening, you are a property manager, you’re a property management entrepreneur and you likely fall into two buckets.
You either view yourself as being successful with sales. That’s your jam, it’s an area of preference and comfortability. Or you’re somebody that says, “It’s important but it’s not my natural aversion.”
If you say it’s not important and it’s not my natural aversion, well than you’re – there probably isn’t a good podcast for you.
0:29:33.9 But you’re in one of two buckets. It’s either your jam, or it’s something that you’re struggling with.
So, if sales is something you would have a natural disposition towards, your company is growing and doing well, than recognize that this is a tool set that as you scale, as you put more people in your organization, under you, as you continue to replace yourself, this is an accessible tool set. Step one.
0:29:58.7 Because this is not built on charisma, Victor. That’s what I like. This is fundamentally not built on charisma, which to the latter category, the person that is struggling, that doesn’t feel like a sales pro, that is not charismatic by nature, this is something they can use.
0:30:16.2 And it’s a helpful framework to stop and to prevent you from getting mad at the money and blaming the customer. “Oh the customer always wants to beat me up on price,” etc.
0:30:26.9 I feel like that anybody can use this tool set. And I know that of the folks that you’ve trained, surely you see these two buckets.
You’ve got the guy that’s just like fluid and into it and the person that’s kind of awkward but still realizes that they need to master it.
Victor: 0:30:40.4 Oh absolutely. I mean, Sales Benchmark Index. It’s a website. They wrote a book called, Making the Number. Great group of people. I think they’re out of Texas.
A few years back, released their study, their version – it’s the first one I’ve seen that said: 13% of people in selling are natural born sales people. 0:31:01.7 They have that charisma, they have the gift of the gab, whatever it may be. And so they have that.
So that means 87% are just not natural born sales people. I like to believe I fall into that. I think I had to learn how to be charismatic.
0:31:16.7 I think I had to learn how say things. I think what people don’t see is how much practice goes into a presentation or a pitch. Everybody only sees the final product. When I’m on stage people see that.
What they don’t see is me walking around a room talking to my self. You know, rehearsing stuff in my head. Putting up a graph and goes, “Ah, that’s a lousy graph. That doesn’t really represent that.” Right? And fighting with myself to try to get the right flow going.
0:31:41.9 And so, it requires that. So if you’re listening to this and you’re just like, “Well I’m not a natural born sales person.” Well welcome to the club. You’re in the majority. 87% of us aren’t. We all just had to work at it.
So the real question is, if you’re struggling with sales and you’re not natural at it, are you putting in enough time? Are you working your sales process in your head?
Jordan: 0:32:02.7 Yeah, absolutely. It’s a question of where do you prioritize it in your business? Are you focused on operations and sales and marketing is kind of like a little bit of a side show that you question that you view as a cost center? Or do you view it as an equal player in your business?
Now, at an enterprise level, of course, that’s a given. But for small business, the sales and marketing function tends to be one of the most under-funded parts of the organization and it’s reflected in the overall priority that’s given to developing that skill set. 0:32:33.0
Victor: 0:32:32.2 But wait, that right there was – Jordan, that right there was gold, man. What you just said. Because it is the most underfunded part of a business.
But yet, it is the – almost like in capitalism, the economic engine. Sales and marketing are the engines. You know. Sales specifically – I wouldn’t call it ‘smarketing‘ now right. That’s a popular phrase.
That right there is the profit center. Sales is a profit center. Everybody else is a cost center. 0:32:59.3 Yet, we don’t feed the profit center. We spend time – it’s amazing to me, Jordan, if I could just go on my mini-rant here.
Jordan: Please. Please do.
Victor: 0:33:08.1 You know, you’ve got these businesses that spend, you know, — I mean, if you’re a small business, you take time to get your business card right, you take time – you get the right office, you pick out the right furniture, you get the best computer equipment.
You get all this stuff. Right? You get the fibre optic network, make sure you’ve got business ethernet. Blah, blah. All this stuff. 0:33:23.4 And you’re spending all this money and then when it comes to sales training, you’re like, “Wow, $300 for a workshop? That’s expensive.”
Victor: 0:33:32.8 I just want to choke the crap out of them. You know what I mean? I’m like, “Are you kidding me?”
Because, keep in mind, that the customer doesn’t see your office most of the time. They see the sales person, where, as you say, it’s the most underfunded center in any business. It is mind blowing.
And if you take it to the enterprise level, you talk about a company who has – let’s say a manufacturing company, which spends millions, millions, trying to build the business, get the factories, machinery, the whole bit, and then they what? Chintz on the actual sales training.
0:34:05.8 And their excuse is, “Well, you know, we just can’t quantify the value.” “Well, let me quantify something for you. You’re not going to get any sales if they can’t sell. Yeah. Quantify that.” You know?
Jordan: 0:34:19.0 You know, Victor, I read an article the other day on the Puritan work ethic. And I feel like there’s a lot of folk, I don’t know, folk philosophy that undergirds a lot of what we do, and part of what you’re talking about, to me, relates to the free market.
The meritocracy. Right? “Hey, the best product wins, Victor. I’m just focused on having the best product, and therefore, I deserve to win. That sales stuff? You know, that’s just glitter on top of the real thing.”
Victor: Nope. 0:34:52.5 You could have the best product in the world, but if you’re getting your ass kicked on the sales side, you’re not going to win. You’re not going to win.
And again – and you know, that whole meritocracy thing, right? “I built it, it’s great, I mean, what else do I need to do? It’s a great product, of course they’re going to buy, Victor.”
And I’m like, “Are you an idiot?” Do you know what I mean?
Unless somebody is out there hustling, positioning for it, quantifying the value, showing them how they can use it, really explaining it to them, they’re not going to buy.
Again, if it’s a commodity, let’s just go to Amazon and buy, right? 0:35:28.0 But as it gets more complex, we’re selling property, that’s a different animal. That’s a complex sale.
Victor: 0:35:33.1 So, to your point, I you know – so what’s the name of the book again? The Puritan what?
Jordan: 0:35:38.6 Just Puritan work ethic. This was a study on the concept of ‘The Puritan Work Ethic’, and I’m just kind of tying that to some of these implicit beliefs that drive what we do.
You mentioned earlier the concept of product parity. 0:35:49.6 I want to tie this back to that. The non-discriminating consumer – put yourself in the shoes of the consumer. We’re all in that category with various goods and services.
0:36:04.1 If somebody tells me – if a car mechanic tells me that I need a new transmission, I can not audit what I am being told. I can go to another mechanic, but I fundamentally can not audit the nature of the good or service because I do not have that skill set.
0:36:16.8 When an investor or accidental landlord is approaching you about your property management services, and you’re somehow expecting that they’re going to have this deep, penetrating analysis that’s going to recognize the technical merits of your service offering, you’re being delusional.
0:36:31.8 You’ve got to reduce down, put yourself in the consumer’s shoes and think about what are the real grading criteria and rubric that they have access to.
0:36:40.2 And for the most part, those are absolutely going to be non-technical, emotional types of things. That’s my basic view on it.
I do want to get into some of the specific objections. I want people to taste and see and feel how practical this is.
0:36:55.1 Let’s just walk through some of these objections. Because guess what? They’re not specific to my industry.
The first one by far that I hear more than any others, and this is where some of that anger comes from, is, Victor, you know what: “They’re just a bunch of money-grubbing, price shoppers. And all they want to know was what is my price.”
0:37:16.8 How do you respond to that? How do you deal with that?
Victor: 0:37:17.7 Now there’s two scenarios. So let’s see if we can serve everybody who is listening, right?
If somebody is telling you, “Just send me the price.” You know what I mean. Because I’ve had people do that and I’ve had customers tell me, said, “Victor, what do I do if somebody just says, ‘send me the price’?”
I said, “Well you have a problem already.” If somebody is just saying, “Send me the price”, that means you’re just going to fall in – they’re just – it’s a bake off at that point, right?
They just want price, it’s just a bake off, and then you’re going to see who makes the top three. And you may celebrate if you’re in the top three, but the top three is basically caging you into a corner so the buyer can come in and use each person against each other to try to what? Push the price down even further.
And so, one thing I tell people is that when somebody says, “Give me the price,”
I said, “I’m walking away. I’m walking away.”
People say, “Victor, how much does it cost for you to come in and sales train?”
And I’m like, “Well, before I give you the price, I’ll give it to you if you really want it, but tell me what you’re trying to do?”
And if they say to me, “We just want price.”
I’m like, “Here you go, click and send it.”
0:38:15.3 But I know I don’t want to waste any time, because if they’re not willing to walk with me through what they really need, then I know they’re price hunting.
And if they came on price, as the old adage goes, they’ll leave on price. 0:38:28.9 And I discovered that people who actually just buy on price are your worst customers. The worst customers.
So I like to believe that – again, the way I qualify people, if they just want price, “Here you go, goodbye.”
And about 20-30% of the people that come my way are like that. Jordan. That’s my finger in the wind type of number.
0:38:49.8 And I’m like, “Good. Go.” But I don’t give them any more of my time. Right?
0:38:54.5 And by the way, when I’m talking to people on the phone, and they say, “Victor, what’s your price.” I said – I’ll give them the price, right? And so when I give them the price, just on their reaction, they’ll tell me are they in or out. And that’s ok. Again, not everybody’s for you.
0:39:09.8 Look, the Wharton School of Business did this study where they said 20% of the people won’t every buy from you. I’m rounding up numbers here.
20% will never buy from you, right? Because they’re a bunch of know-it-alls, right? And they’re just price hunters, whatever it may be.
0:39:21.6 20% will always buy from you because they can see the value of what you offer.
And this is right in the middle, there’s a 60%. These are people who are uncertain, or complacent. Right?
Uncertain — “I don’t know which way to go, Victor.”
Complacent — “Ah, it’s good enough.” Right? 0:39:41.5
And our job is to make those people either more certain or create a sense of urgency to move them off complacency.
So, be ok with losing 20% of the deals. Ok? So, when – again, when somebody talks about pricing, that you know, again, “Just send me some pricing,” I’m always trying to get them on the phone, because if I can’t talk to them, then again, they’re just going to judge me on pricing. See, I’m trying to position myself as an expert.
Jordan: Yeah, absolutely.
Victor: 0:40:06.2 If you want to buy a piece of property, well tell me what you’re looking for. And the more – because, here’s the key thing. You know this already Jordan. It is the quality of my questions that will determine their perception of my value. 0:40:20.6
Jordan: Amen. Amen.
Victor: 0:40:22.9 Do you know what I mean? That’s it. It is the quality of my questions that will determine their value of me.
If I ask simple questions, it’s like, “That’s not very deep, Victor.”
But if I ask them questions, and they go, “Ah, I don’t know. Nobody’s ever asked me that Victor.” Then I know I got a great question. You know what I mean? 0:40:40.1 I got ya. One of those. I got ya. Because I’m making them think.
And so, again, it’s never – look, when people are hunting on prices, because they’re scared. 0:40:51.7 Right? I want to get the best price. I got to get the best price. I don’t want to get screwed. Right? Because somewhere in my past I got screwed, and I overpaid.
0:41:01.8 But, if you ask any rational person, you know, they’ll tell you, “I’ll pay a little more, if I know that I trust you and I’m getting what I’m getting.” They’ll pay a little more.
0:41:12.9 So look, we took a company, a technology company – we took them from 14.1 million to 98 million dollars in two and a half years and we were selling on average, about 30% above our competitors. 0:41:26.1 30% price above our competitors. Because we learned how to sell value. You know what I mean?
Jordan: 0:41:34.8 It’s cream. That’s cream on top.
Victor: 0:41:36.5 Yeah. We knew how to position. We knew how to position. And we knew how to create that sense of urgency or create the level of certainty because – the customer goes, “Ok, you know what, I’ll pay.”
0:41:44.7 Anybody listening to this podcast, they’ve been in a situation, and I’m talking to you out there – you’ve been in a situation where you could’ve bought it cheaper, but you went with somebody else. Why?
Let’s go back to your mechanic example about the transmission, right? 0:42:00.8 First of all, if the person – it’s the way they talk to you about your car and the way they explain it that will determine your comfort level with it. ‘Cause you don’t have knowledge.
But if somebody takes the time – let me break it down for you. A transmission is basically a box, you know what I mean? And in this box, we have this and this is what’s happening.
Now, and I would say, you can – here’s a response block right? “Now you can go – you’re probably thinking, you know, can I get it cheaper elsewhere, and the answer is yes.
In fact, if you go down the road here, you might get a 5% discount. Don’t go over here because they charge about 20% more. And so here’s our price.” You know what I mean?
0:42:44.5 And so, that was the demo piece. I’ll share with them what everybody else is charging, and what do you think most people are going to do? “No, no. I like you, you’re honest. You’re up front.”
Jordan: 0:42:52.1 Now we have trust.
Victor: 0:42:53.3 We have trust. And you’re not going trying to pin me down to do business with you. You’re basically shooing me away.
Because if I’m the expert in automotive, I’m talking to you like I’m an expert. “I know what you need, I know what your car needs, I’ve worked with these cars before. You can go down the road if you want, I don’t care, but if you want to leave it here, I’d be more than happy to do this for you, have it ready by tomorrow. What do you want to do?” 0:43:14.6 And it’s that – see it’s that power, that conversation, man.
Jordan: 0:43:21.4 So we get passed that, we deal with the initial objection and the next one is, we’re having this great dialogue, there’s this perception of this person being open to my expertise, great back and forth, but then it ends with, “You know what, I really love what you’re offering here, but I need to talk to x, y, z first. My spouse, my brother, my uncle, my senator.” Walk me through responding to that.
Victor: 0:43:45.8 By the way, that is the toughest. We would call that deferring to the other authority. Right? Because you know, in a situation where you’re selling to a couple, well, “I need to check with my wife,” “I need to check with my husband.” Right?
And there’s really – unless you can get them in the same room together, which is the obvious answer right? Get them in the room together so now you’ve got them both in front of you.
0:44:08.6 But the reality isn’t like that all the time. Right? They’re not going to be there. 0:44:12.6 So here’s the best strategy I’ve found then, because I think that is the only objection – I think is the toughest one to block.
0:44:20.1 But here’s what I’ve learned since writing the book, Response Block Selling, I want to share with you psychologically what’s in the book and works very well, and that I’ve found works very well.
And that is, when somebody says, — and by the way, early on I’m going to ask basic questions like a good salesperson, right? “In terms of making a decision,” you know, “is it going to be you or is it going to be you and your husband, you and your wife?”
And you’re going to try to get them in the room together, the whole bit. 0:44:43.7 So let’s say you’ve – assumed you’ve done that, but you just can’t get them in the room together, right? Now, you know, that once you leave, right? Look, you know, Jordan are you married Jordan?
Jordan: I am.
Victor: 0:44:55.7 Ok. So, I’m married. I know that if I’m going to make a big decision, something that impacts the house, my wife wants in on that decision.
Victor: 0:45:03.2 It’s just that simple. You know what I mean? You’re not going to get away from that. I mean, again you just can’t.
So what I’m going to do is, I know that I can’t get her in the room, right? If I’m the salesperson. I can’t get the wife in the room, so I’m going to deal with the husband.
0:45:16.3 My job, is what I’ve learned with that specific objection, that specific objection, is to say to him – he says, “Let’s put your wife aside for a second. Let’s put your wife aside.
Based on what I’ve shown you, everything we’ve talked about, if it was your decision, what would that be?” And you say, “Victor, I want – I would do it.” Right? But most people would stop there.
0:45:40.3 Here’s what I always ask: Why? Why did you do it? You know. And now, what I am training him to do, is to parrot back to me three reasons why it’s a good idea.
Because those are the three reasons he’s going to take back to his wife. That’s what I try to get from it. 0:46:02.8 In other words – by the way, this also works in a B2B sale where you don’t have a decision maker in the room.
But you know, you’ve got your champion. Your champ is like, “Love it! Love your stuff! I dig your stuff, Victor.” I said, “Why do you dig it? Why do you think? I know you’ve bought into it, you just told me you did,” I said, “but you know, why did you – why would you think your boss would buy into it? Why do you think your wife would buy into this?”
And then now he’s going to say, “Because of this, because of this, because of this.” 0:46:31.0 Now, if he gives me two points, maybe I’ll add a third one.
“What about this? Isn’t that important to her as well?” Because if I know my business, I know what the wife’s objections are. Do you know what I mean? I just know what they are. I’m just not there to have the conversation with her.
Now by the way, as a salesperson, again, I would try to get them in the room. Hell, I would try to get them on the phone and conference call them in. But worse case, you can’t do that, why don’t we train the spouse to be our surrogate when we’re not there.
Jordan: 0:47:02.6 Yeah, I love it. Get them at least to the point where they’re ready to play an active role in selling the other party.
Victor: 0:47:07.4 And they have to tell you, Jordan, why they’re in. Most sales people just stop like, “Would you buy?”
“Yes I would.”
“Great. So when can we set up a meeting with your wife?”
No, bad idea. “Tell me why you want to buy it? Why are you buying into this?”
And then almost challenge that person. Do you know what I mean?
You know, I said, “Well, that’s not necessarily true. What I’d said to you was this.”
And I’m training and coaching him. And again, what you’re doing is setting him up.
0:47:34.5 By the way, the other objection, and I’ll share this one with you, is the, “I’ll think about it.” I’ll think about it is a common stall that we often here.
And so one of the things – I don’t know if you heard one of my latest podcasts where I deal with that. I came up with, what I think is the ideal formula for, “I’ll think about it.”
0:47:56.5 It’s like, man, it’s a killer. Do you know what I mean? By the way, nobody’s come up with this one, how about that.
Jordan: I love it. Alright.
Victor: 0:48:03.9 Nobody’s come up with this one and this is straight up money if you do it right.
Jordan: Bring it man, what is it?
Victor: 0:48:10.5 Alright, so somebody says, “I’ll think about it.” And I’ll say, “Jordan,” assuming I’m trying to sell you, “Jordan, when somebody tells me they have to think about, they’re either not interested or they’re interested but not sure. Which is it?” That’s the first step.
Jordan: Two questions.
Victor: 0:48:28.5 That’s the first step, right? Now what I’m doing is I’m funnelling them mentally. “So either you’re not interested or you’re interested but you’re not sure.”
Now, the person says, “No, no Vic, I’m interested, I’m just not sure.”
Great, let’s funnel in first. 0:48:47.0 “Jordan, I get that. Customers always tell me, ‘You know Victor, I’m interested, I’m not sure’, so I’m glad you’re interested.” Got to confirm your position right.
0:48:54.4 I said, “There’s three reasons why people aren’t sure. The first one is they don’t see this as a fit. Is this a fit?” And I’m being very simplistic here. You know, “Is this what you were looking for?” You know, “Is this the type of property you were looking for?”
And you say, “Yeah no Victor, that’s what I was looking for. This is what we talked about.”
“So if it isn’t fit, then maybe there’s either some features that this property doesn’t have.” 0:49:21.0 So general fit. Kind of a high level. Is that a fit?
And then, does it have the features. 0:49:26.8 And then they’ll say, “No, no it has everything Victor, it has this…” and by the way, they may tell you, “You know I think that’s it Victor, it doesn’t have this.” Right? 0:49:34.2 “It doesn’t have access to this road.” Or whatever it may be. “It’s not close enough to…” whatever it may be. Whatever the case is. But at least they told you.
But if they say, “No, no, no it has everything I was looking for.”
I’ll say, “Jordan, then I’m left to conclude. If it is a fit, it has everything you’re looking for, then I have to assume it’s finance. Is that it?”
0:49:58.1 Now I’ve walked you through three ‘ifs’. Is it a fit? That’s more like, “Does that look like you want to buy – is this kind of what you wanted.” Features is the second if. Does it have the specificities you want. Specific things you wanted. And then if those two things are good – if I’m buying a pool, “Is that the type of pool you wanted?
“Are those the features that you wanted in that pool?”
“Yeah that’s it.”
“Then Victor, I have to assume it’s finance.”
0:50:22.9 And usually there you’re going to get people tapping out. “Yeah, it’s more than I expected to pay.”
“Perfect. And by the way, a lot of people tell me, it’s more than they expected to pay.”
Now if I handled that objection earlier on, right? If I set it up nice earlier on – and we’ll do this during the workshop, Jordan. I’m going to show you how you can tee that up early and frame the pricing so that isn’t an objection when you get to the end.
0:50:43.6 But if I may insert the fourth ‘if’. If it is a fit, it has the features, and it isn’t financing, and you know, you have to gauge if they’re being honest with you or not, but let’s just assume it’s a wealthy person and they’ve got the money.
Then the last ‘if’ is fear. And that means that somewhere in your pitch, you didn’t make them feel comfortable. You didn’t give them enough insight. You didn’t raise their level of certainty. You didn’t reduce their anxiety, or they simply don’t trust you. 0:51:15.9 Because you didn’t position yourself as an expert.
And I’m telling you, that is the amazing formula. It’s that simple to use. Not interested, interested but not sure. Great.
0:51:25.8 Interested but not sure? Typically three reasons. Boom, boom, boom. And in there, you’re going to extract information for future sales pitches. Right?
0:51:36.3 Because if they tell you it doesn’t have these features, right? “This is kind of what I was looking for.” Well then maybe, in the next presentation you do, you block that objection early on. So by the time you get to the end, you’ll close easier. What do you think?
Jordan: 0:51:50.1 Wow. So Victor, didn’t you say early on that you had a background in engineering?
Victor: 0:51:54.0 Yes, electrical engineering.
Jordan: 0:51:55.5 So straight out of the mind of an engineer, we have this branching logic that very logically says these are all of the possibilities that exist, and here’s a process for actually, intelligently funnelling people through those.
0:52:10.3 So depending on where they fall out, we can systematically address the concerns. I love it. 0:52:16.8 Simple, powerful, accessible. Guys, this is what we’re going to be talking about at PM Grow.
Yes, Victor is opening the event with a kick your teeth in keynote specifically on sales and marketing for property managers. I’m incredibly excited about that.
0:52:32.8 But before we do that, there’s going to be a workshop that’s going to be a one-on-one time, one-on-one opportunity with Victor.
0:52:40.7 And what I like about Victor is he gets his hands dirty. He can do the thing up on stage to blow your mind, it’s amazing, I’ve seen some of his keynotes, but more importantly, when you’re up in-person, belly-to-belly, he’s willing to ad-lib and work through various scenarios.
0:52:58.2 So Victor, what are we going to be talking about in the workshop? What does a workshop with Victor Antonio look like?
Victor: 0:53:03.3 Well the thing is, we’re going to walk – the workshop is going to be your workshop. Let me just begin there.
Everybody wants to come in as a sales trainer and give you their workshop. What I’m going to do, is during the workshop – listen carefully, no powerpoint. The workshop has no powerpoint.
0:53:19.2 We’re going to work out all your issues. In other words, we’re going to lay out the sales process as you see it. We may come up with two or three. 0:53:25.8 Then we’ll dig into them. We’ll figure out where the sticking points are at. And you’re going to give me your best.
0:53:30.9 And by the way, if you’ve been around this business for ten, 15, 20 years, oh I want you in that room. Oh I want you in that room because I want to work with you. You know what I mean? Because I think that’s where the best ideas come from.
0:53:40.7 And what happens in the room with me, is that, you know, some of the people who’ve been around the business a long time, Jordan, they start giving their opinions.
0:53:47.7 They start giving us insight. Right? Kind of like, “Hey, when I’m in that situation, here’s what I do.” And if you’re just starting out and you hear something like that?
You’re going to go, “Aww, that’s what I need to start doing because I don’t do that.”
That’s when the magic starts happening. When this interaction is going on, and really getting dirty with it and trying to figure it out, that’s when it’s going to happen.
That’s when you’re going to figure out how to sell property management in the real world.
Jordan: 0:54:13.6 Love it. So we’ve been talking about the presentation. The in-person interaction that is critical. It’s the building block.
You do not graduate if you don’t get that right. But when you do graduate and you’re thinking about hiring a sales person, a business development manager, comp model, management – if scale is your focus, if scale is your goal, then you also want to be there.
0:54:36.5 Victor can walk you through the psychology of managing a sales force. I know you’ve done that, we didn’t choose to talk about that in the course of the interview, but if somebody has struggled with multiple BDMs, where they hired them, they just didn’t perform, they got frustrated, but they fundamentally believe in the model, but they just haven’t been able to make it work, is that someone that can get value to learn how to get over the hump and clone their own sales success? Can that person get value from this workshop?
Victor: 0:55:06.4 Oh they’re going to get the value. In fact, you know, I want them to be vocal when they’re in the room, because I think there’s other people that are going to have that same issue.
And so I’ve dealt with this for many years now – it’s how do you build a sales force. But how do you build a sustainable sales force.
0:55:20.5 Again, whether you want to call them business development people, account sales people, whatever you may be, how you scale this, how you build them out, how you put a process in place where they can hit the ground running faster, because the reality is, Jordan, a lot of people who are managers are horrible sales managers.
0:55:34.9 These are CEOs who have built a company, have just grinded it out, but the fascinating thing, Jordan, is that they have this inability to train sales people.
And I think this is important to note, that one of the things you’re going to get in the workshop is I’m going to teach you how to train your sales people.
0:55:54.0 So if you’re there for the sales training. But also, I’m going to teach you how to train your sales people. Because, if you’re a manager – let me just set up this scenario and I’ll be brief – is that – has this every happened? You have a superstar sales person, you put them in a management role, and they simply can’t train sales people.
0:56:16.8 I’ve know sales people, superstars, who’ve been in the business for let’s say, 20 years, right? And they’re like —
Victor: 0:56:22.8 Yeah, true producers. “I can sell to anybody.”
And you ask them, “How do you sell? Tell me how you sell.”
And they’ll go, “Well, you know, Victor, I just go in there and you know, I just talk to the customer, and I really, you know, just let them know I care. It’s all about relationship, Victor. It’s all about relationship.”
That’s their sales training program. 0:56:40.8 That’s their sales – and so when the new guy…
Jordan: 0:56:42.3 The Nike method. Just do it.
Victor: 0:56:43.9 Just do it. Right? And so the poor sales person who just joined the company goes – you know, you do the ride alongs right?
0:56:53.9 And again, they’re not learning anything because – here’s the thing, there’s something called Polony Effect ((?)) and that is you can’t tell what you know.
And a lot of people who are good at selling can’t tell or explain what they know.
0:57:05.2 And they can’t transfer that information. In the workshop, we’re going to lay things out so you’ll be able to transfer the information. Not only learn the process, how to block objections, how to, you know, format a pitch, how to frame pricing and all that stuff.
But also, here’s how you train your sales people. Here’s how you put a little roadmap together for them. 0:57:24.7 So come along, man. I want them there Jordan. I want them there. People want to scale their business? You want to be there. Because I lived through it, I scaled sales companies or groups, and I can help you.
Jordan: 0:57:34.1 I will be there. I will be butt in chair, taking notes, articulating the own internal issues that we’ve had with Lead Simple, to level up.
This guy is a consummate professional and you want to be at the workshop. 0:57:46.8 If you’re there, if you’re going to be present, you don’t want to miss this workshop.
Because at the end of the day, the best marketing strategy in the world is broken if you cannot actually close those leads. You want to be at this workshop.
0:57:59.8 Victor, I now want to move over to the rapid-fire section of the interview. We’re going to close things out with a series of questions, and I just want some guttural answers from you. We do this with every guest. The questions are always slightly different.
Victor: I’m scared, I’m scared.
Jordan: 0:58:15.4 The first question I have for you – naw, it’s straight forward man, just want some guttural answers. 0:58:17.7 What time do you wake up each morning?
Victor: 0:58:20.0 About 5:00am – 5:30am.
Jordan: 0:58:22.4 Coffee or tea?
Victor: 0:58:22.4 Coffee.
Jordan: 0:58:23.7 Favorite airline?
Victor: 0:58:26.6 Delta.
Jordan: 0:58:26.6 The best city in the world is…
Victor: 0:58:29.8 Oh, Dubai.
Jordan: 0:58:33.1 Your top travel hack to make life easier on the road?
Victor: 0:58:38.1 Upgrade to first class.
Jordan: 0:58:40.2 What one mentor has had the greatest impact on your life?
Victor: 0:58:45.2 Zig Ziglar.
Jordan: 0:58:48.4 What one book has impacted you the most?
Victor: 0:58:49.8 Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Jordan: 0:58:53.5 Long read. Worth it. 0:58:54.9 What’s the best keynote you’ve ever heard from another speaker?
Victor: 0:59:00.7 Larry Winget, but I don’t remember the title. It was his last parting speech from The National Speaker’s Association and he just went gutter in a good way. You know what I mean?
He just laid it on the line and I really loved his blunt talk. And that’s got to be a speech that’s probably ten to 12 years old, something like that.
Jordan: 0:59:17.0 Alright, we’ll Google it and see if we can find it online. 0:59:19.2 What do you think is the best keynote that you’ve ever personally given?
Victor: 0:59:24.9 Best keynote that I’ve given – I think if you search online, it’s one in Raleigh, North Carolina. 3000 people. And it’s 15 minutes long and it has like 350,000 views.
And by the way, here’s how you find it. 0:59:39.3 Go to YouTube, type in ‘Victor Antonio best motivational speech ever’. Like literally. Literally type that in.
Jordan: 0:59:48.1 Ok, perfect, we’ll check it out after the fact. Sounds like a barn burner. 0:59:51.9 If you could do it all over again, what advice would you have given to your younger self at the beginning of your sales career?
Victor: 1:00:00.0 Be more forgiving of yourself. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
Jordan: 1:00:05.2 Ok. I like it. Yeah, it’s a long journey, that makes sense.
Victor: 1:00:07.9 It is, it is. And I think the thing is sometimes, you know, we beat ourselves up when it’s really just part of the learning process.
Jordan: 1:00:17.3 Yeah, absolutely. 1:00:19.4 Final question of the interview. I ask everybody this, Victor, and everybody has a slightly different take. 1:00:23.8 Victor Antonio, in your view, are entrepreneurs born or bred?
Victor: 1:00:29.3 I think they’re bred. I think they’re bred. Only because the – you know – ok, I always tell people this – here’s how I prove it, right?
If I go to the, I don’t know, to the deepest, darkest part of Africa, you know what I mean? There’s not a lot of resources.
Again, what you’re going to find is, that you know, there are people that become creative, but then people have to learn to become creative because out of necessity.
1:00:52.7 What I think is that, the reason I believe they’re bred, is because sometimes it takes a bit of pressure. Right? Some type of adversity that reveals that character to develop.
1:01:04.2 I don’t think sales people are born. I don’t think entrepreneurs are born, because I’ve seen people who have zero motivation, but man, then they see something that lights them up like a Roman candle. You know.
1:01:16.2 A perfect example, not to digress, is that – you know, you’ve ever talked to somebody that’s very quiet?
Victor: 1:01:22.4 And then you hit on that one thing that they love to talk about. And they just won’t shut up. Right? And it’s great. But – and I think business people are like that. Do you know what I mean?
So I think there – you know, I think there are – you know, it’s, you know, nature versus nurture. Right? You know, and I think it’s nurture. People are just, you know, you nurture that.
1:01:42 You know, if you study – by the way, my favourite book on this to prove my point is – I don’t know if you’ve ever read Malcolm Gladwell’s book, Outliers.
Jordan: Yeah, absolutely.
Victor: 1:01:51.8 Ok, well there you saw that sometimes it’s circumstance, right? He told a story about Bill Gates and the Beatles, right? It’s circumstance that made these people great. And so I believe nurture has a lot to do with it. Your environment, where you’re raised. All that.
Jordan: 1:02:08.8 There’s no doubt about it, it’s a huge influencing factor. Everybody’s got a different take. I appreciate you adding your thoughts to the mix.
Victor: 1:02:15.9 Mine is right Jordan, mine is right.
Jordan: That sells man, you’ve got to have an opinion, you’ve got to be able to sell your viewpoint. Victor, if folks want to learn more about what you’re doing between now and the PM Grow Summit, what’s the best place for them to go?
Victor: 1:02:31.9 Two places. One is VictorAntonio.com to make that easy. Or, simply follow me on YouTube. And so just type in Victor Antonio, you’ll find me.
That’s where I’m always posting new content every week. I do two postings a week and it’s great content. My podcast, by the way, which you’ll also find on YouTube, are ten minutes long.
So, man, I set up the problem, give you your answers and I get the hell out. 1:02:55.2
Jordan: 1:02:55.1 Yeah you dominate the YouTube search results. You’re like sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
Victor: 1:02:59.9 I’m doing my best. I’m doing my best. Look, if I’m going to talk about sales and marketing, I’d better act like it. Right?
Jordan: 1:03:04.4 Absolutely. Hey, this has been an absolute pleasure. It’s been an honour to have you on the show. We’ll see you in San Diego, Victor.
Victor: Thanks Jordan, you’re awesome man. Thank you.