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Michael Reese on Filling the Gap in the Real Estate Market

Michael Reese on Filling the Gap in the Real Estate Market

Today, on The Profitable Property Management Podcast, I’m talking with Michael Reese:  Entrepreneur, master marketer, endurance athlete, and accomplished autodidact.  

Michael is co-founder of Kinder Reese Real Estate Advisors and The National Association of Expert Advisors.  He quickly worked his way up from new agent to selling 250 homes a year.  And he’s moved on to become a highly connected thought leader in the real estate space and beyond.  

His latest book, Digital President, promises to help readers create authority, attract audiences, convert customers, and build communities.  

We’re going to explore the thinking of a master marketer who has managed to transcend the vertical that he’s grown up in, as we discuss strategy, positioning, and mental models.  

I hope you find this episode valuable as we break down the opportunities on the brokerage side of the business from somebody that’s seen it all.

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Topics covered:

  • (05:16) – Market Opportunity
      • (05:34) – Michael discusses the opportunities available to the Bezos’s of the world but not to 99% of individual agents.
      • (06:15) – Disrupting the real estate industry.
        • (09:37) – The role of the brokerage model and new offers to agents making them a client.
      • (10:53) – Michael’s predictions for the future of the agent.
      • (17:00) – Discussing the growth of companies like Commissions Inc.
      • (19:06) – The changing landscape of the relationship between brokerages and agents using Keller Williams as a case study.
        • (20:03) – The impact of The Millionaire Real Estate Agent.
          • (22:12) – Gary Keller’s response to agents no longer wanting to work for brokerages.
        • (23:23) – How eXp has changed the real estate industry.
          • (25:09) – Michael discusses the economic incentive that eXp has to cultivate and manage advanced level marketing skills.
        • (26:55) – The differences between the Keller Williams model and the eXp model.
  • (30:00) – Mental Models
      • (30:55) – Michael shares some of the mental models he derives the most value from.
      • (33:00) – The dangers of solving the ‘wrong’ problem.
      • (35:35) – Building mental fortitude.
      • (37:16) – The importance of increasing the amount of decisions you make.
  • (42:19) – Sacrifice
    • (42:30) – Michael shares the strategic sacrifices he has made in order to achieve his goals and vision.

Rapid-fire Questions:

  • (53:43) – If you were starting over today, what would be your first C-suite hire?
  • (55:37) – What has been your biggest marketing failure?
  • (56:16) – Best hire you ever made?
  • (56:27) – Who would you rather spend a day with?  Elon Musk, Warren Buffet, or yourself 12 months ago?
  • (56:43) – College or pro sports?
  • (56:46) – Pat Green or Zack Brown?
  • (56:58) – Water skiing or snow skiing?
  • (57:03) – Mexico versus British Virgin Islands?
  • (57:09) – Barbara Corcoran or Gary Keller?
  • (57:15) – Nurture or MQL?
  • (57:32) – Data or instinct?
  • (57:36) – Motivation or discipline?
  • (57:40) – Are entrepreneurs born or bred?

Resources mentioned:

  • The National Association of Expert Advisors – Michael’s organization that seeks to revolutionize the real estate industry by creating or finding the systems, tools, and technologies that can help agents distinguish themselves above the average frustrated agent into a true Expert Advisor
  • Digital President – Michael’s upcoming new book on why some funnels get the job done and some don’t.
  • Commissions Inc.  (16:19) – Comprehensive technology solution that connects top tier real estate brokers and agents to homebuyers and sellers.

Where to learn more:

If you want to learn more about Michael, get a copy of his new book, or listen to his podcast, head on over to DigitalPresident.com.


Jordan: 0:03:43.0 Welcome closers, today we have another episode of The Profitable Property Management Podcast coming at you. This is Season Two on sales.

I’m your host Jordan Muela, and every week I interview world-class property management entrepreneurs and industry experts who share actionable insights to help you grow your property management empire.

Whether you manage 100 or 1000 units, this broadcast is designed to help you see the big picture and to give you the tools and tactics that you need to get to the next level.

Today I’m talking with Michael Reese. Entrepreneur, master marketer, endurance athlete and accomplished autodidact.

Michael is one half of the duo that founded The National Association of Expert Advisors. He quickly worked his way up from new agent to selling 250 homes a year. And he’s moved on to become a highly connected thought leader in the real estate space and beyond.

His latest book, Digital President promises to help readers create authority, attract audiences, convert customers and build communities.

We’re going to explore the thinking of a master marketer, that has managed to transcend the vertical that he’s grown up in, as we discuss strategy, positioning, and mental models.

I hope you find this episode valuable as we break down the opportunities on the brokerage side of the business from somebody that’s seen it all.

Welcome to the show Michael.

Michael: 0:05:13.4 Hey, no problem, can you hear me good?

Jordan: 0:05:16.4 I can hear you great man. Mike, I want to start here. I want to just get my listeners to kind of understand how you think.

And I want to start off just understanding what opportunity do you see in the real estate space today in terms of the forces driving outside capital into the industry.

0:05:34.4 Specifically, what opportunities do the Bezos’s of the world have that 99% of individual agents do not?

Michael: 0:05:44.2 Man, first of all, I want to say that, what I would say that is specifically, is, you know, it’s all about the client experience.

I mean, if you win the consumer, you win the game.

And so, you know, I believe that, you know – I was having the conversation yesterday with a buddy of mind in Silicon Valley. He’s a top agent – billion dollars in annual sales – and we’re working on a project that – we were simply talking about what we thought would disrupt the real estate agent.

0:06:15.2 And he was sharing with me that he thought that disrupting the real estate agent might be important for a little while, but that there was obviously something bigger that might come up and actually just disrupt the entire real estate market.

0:06:28.7 And so, when you mention the name Bezos – me and him popcorned that back and forth – this has kind of been an ongoing conversation with a really smart fellow for probably the last five, six years, and you know, the question that I told him was, you know, he thought that there would be some type of technology – typically when someone disrupts real estate, it’s outside of the industry and it’s usually by winning the consumer.

0:06:51.9 I mean, at the end of the day, Elon Musk says, “Brand is just perception that meets reality over time.”

And so, like right now, you know, really, there is no brand that meets any type of reality for the consumer.

We mean, the real estate consumer doesn’t think – from a RE/MAX agent or you know, Keller Williams agent. They’re all number one. 0:07:13.0 They either have a balloon or they sell the most homes. And so that doesn’t mean nothing to them.

0:07:17.6 And so somebody’s going to have to come in and actually solve a real problem. 0:07:22.7 I believe that, you know, in business – and this is – my book, Digital President is my latest book, but it’s just the sum of my work of all the things that I learned.

0:07:30.6 And one of the things that I learned that was probably the most powerful in just business and entrepreneurship, is the power of the value proposition. 0:07:39.2 A good offer.

And so somebody is going to create an offer. And a good offer either creates an opportunity or solves the problem.

0:07:48.9 And I think what’s going to happen is someone is going to solve a real problem that is going to be – in hindsight it’s going to be crystal clear but it’s going to be right there in front of our face.

0:07:59.9 And it’s going to be the thought – thought is going to be the biggest constraint because we’re thinking in the box.

And so someone’s going to be like, “Holy moly, I never thought that the consumer would be willing to do it that way.”

And they’re going to say, “Yeah we would do it that way. This was the thing that was holding us back. This was the thing that was concerning us.”

0:08:24.7 And it will be clear. To me, I think that the thought that I had with this guy – his name is Brett Jennings to be specific in Silicon Valley.

I said, “The problem with anybody…” — because he thought these people that are coming in and buying big houses and paying them for cash and stuff like that would disrupt real estate.

0:08:41.6 And so, you know, you have this Blackstone that comes in and backs OfferPad, which is, you know, a legitimate thing that came – but they’re limited to certain markets.

And what I’ve told him was anybody that comes in and tries to disrupt the real estate agent, they better grab their saddle for the downturn.

Because everybody wants to do it when it’s good, but everybody wants to get rid of all of their real estate when it’s bad.

0:09:07.2 And so, you know, if it’s every seven years, I think what people are going to do, is they’re going to think they have it figured out and we might even think they have it figured out, but what they will find out is that whether it’s a start market correction, which Tony Robbins and all of his new people from his new book – what is it, Money Masters or whatever, they’re saying something’s coming, but it’s going to be a correction as it relates to interest rates and stuff like that.

0:09:32.2 Something’s going to happen and people who think they’re right on the cusp are going to be flown back.

0:09:37.7 So I think that the agent will get disrupted first through the brokerage model. I think a lot of the agents are going to get a better value proposition. They’re going to get a better offer.

0:09:48.6 Someone’s going to solve their problem where they’re considered the client, not the consumer.

And then the real question is, is, you know, is there a way to come in and get the consumer.

0:09:59.3 In the automobile leasing industry, an insurance policy created an opportunity for people to lease their own cars. And without that piece of information, the business model would have never existed.

So, you know, there might be something that doesn’t exist today as it relates to letting strangers in your house, that will be, you know, available tomorrow.

And with that availability, they might actually attack commissions. 0:10:29.6 And in attacking commissions, you know, the agent might be more considered something different.

They might not be considered to do all of the current functionality that they’re doing. Like the paperwork, you know. 0:10:40.1 Paperwork can be anything 0:10:41.5 [Inaudible] – paperwork can be, you know, commoditized. You know, whether it’s legal paperwork, anything.

So, all of those things will be, you know, they’ll become more compartmentalized, and they’ll be done cheaper, faster, through technology.

0:10:53.5 The agent will still do something. Whether it’s unlock the door, or somebody will be hired to do something.

And what I believe – what I believe is that – I think the showing will start online and it’ll be like virtual. 0:11:07.6 And I don’t think your first showing is going to be in the house in the future.

0:11:11.6 And I believe that – I personally believe that you will pay somebody to make your house look great.

So like staging the stuff that’s overlooked because people don’t think about – they’re like, “Oh when they come in it looks fine.”

0:11:26.1 People are going to go and they’re going to take that first viewing that’s happening online where people can actually make that purchase right then and there but then have some type of out – but maybe it’s, you know, they put $5,000 earnest money with the thumbprint.

They can get in any door, their background check that’s tied to their social. They’ve already got the money in escrow.

0:11:45.9 They can write an offer on a house and take possession of it. It’s all compartmentalized really quickly and then they have the same due diligence process, so now that – because they’re a certified buyer that’s actually been certified just like when you go through TSA at the airport.

0:11:59.9 You can come in and go out and you got money and policies that protect that homeowner that give them that – you know, do you see what I’m saying?

0:12:06.9 People can be tracked. And in order for that to happen their phone has to tell them where – there’s just so much technology that can make current systems irrelevant.

0:12:17.6 Even getting into a car that drives you to the house. And something like that will happen. I still think that though, like a do-it-yourself divorce, you’re still going to have a buyer and seller and somebody’s going to have to be in the transaction to get people to come together.

0:12:32.4 Because buyers are always going to want the least and sellers are always going to want the most. And so, you know, I think you’re going to have a certified negotiator and you’re going to have – the whole production process is going to be worth a lot more.

Jordan: 0:12:43.2 Alright, alright. Guys, we kicked it off, we got the man wound up. There was a lot in what you just said, Mike, but I want to break it down.

0:12:51.9 The question that I asked you is what is the opportunity that outside capital sees. 0:12:54.7 The answer that you gave me is what we see in any given industry.

If you take, like, a cheese grater on a given industry and you start cutting it into slices and we think about those slices in terms of the skill and the value being created with each one of the incremental constituent pieces that determines the opportunity of.

0:13:17.1 Can we deconstruct and can we do, kind of a high/low based on what should be human labour, what should be automated. What should – what type of human labour.

0:13:25.2 That kind of thinking is the intersection of thinking both on a forward basis, but as well as a practical basis.

0:13:33.3 Because the Silicon Valley guys that want to come in and dice up the industry, some of the opportunity that they are seeing is the same kind of opportunity that an agent on the up and up that is thinking ahead can get ahead of and do for themselves.

0:13:47.4 Let’s rewind to the comment that you made specifically about the brokerages viewing agents as being their customers.

In your mind, what value do brokerages typically create now? And what type of value should they create and will they need to create going into the future?

Michael: 0:14:06.5 I mean, so you know I don’t know if this is – I mean, I can give you the nice answer or the entertaining answer.

But I’ll tell you what, the truth – if we weren’t on a podcast, at the end of the day, you know, Keller Williams just had their big international conference.

I’ve been with the big brokers, I’ve been independent, I’ve had partnerships, teams, and I’ve looked under the hood and coached all of the top real estate agents and the top ten in every brokerage across North America.

0:14:33.5 They’re part of my active going mastermind. I’ve spent a lot of time in this space.

0:14:38.4 What I have seen is – this is just my personal opinion and I can give you some more context, but at the end of the day, the bigger agents are moving over to these – they’re maintaining the brand.

They’re realizing that a brand does not do anything specifically for them. And so, you’re getting the Darwinian – Dan Kennedy, direct response marketer, one of the top marketers in the country says that – he had a conversation with 0:15:06.3 [Inaudible] it was the Darwinian thinning of the herd. Right?

Where you had this big agent and then this discount person. 0:15:14.3 And there’s really no room for the guy in between.

The big guy ends up hiring the middle guy and vary the salary or whatever it is. They’re putting them on some type of split, which they’re taking the responsibility of the broker.

The broker in the day would run ads in the newspaper, would generate opportunities. You could have my up-time in exchange for a commission split.

What, you know – I think Gary Keller just came out and said they’re no longer a real estate company, they’re a tech company. No comment.

0:15:37.8 The bottom line is, is that they are aggressively – companies like that are aggressively trying to move into the technology space, which they – you know, I’ve been in the room with Gary Keller when he said, I don’t care what technology you have, I’ll beat anybody’s ass by going straight and knocking on the door.

0:15:57.4 That was in – the 48 months. And then this – literally this week he comes on stage for his vision speech and says, “We are a technology company.”

0:16:06.4 And the thing is, the truth is, is that, you know, everybody’s – everybody has their right to be wrong, but at the end of the day – at the end of the day, the real estate agent wants one thing, they want to get a customer.

0:16:19.9 And the bottom line is, is that more money is invested in lead generation than like, the total commissions earned off the leads – and so there’s always this disproportionate opportunity for people like Facebook and Google and, you know, tools like Commissions Inc, Market Maker, which is one of the upcoming tools, or auto-dialers.

People like that, they’re selling and picks and forks, or picks and shovels to the gold diggers and there’s – you know the old saying, there’s more money in that than actually the mining of gold.

0:16:50.4 Whether that’s true or not, there’s been a lot of opportunities listening to this. When I – in 2000 – have you ever heard of the company Commissions Inc?

Jordan: 0:16:58.3 Absolutely. Yep.

Michael: 0:17:00.9 Ok, so Commissions Inc was founded by a guy named Duane LeGate.

He called me years ago and they had a very little bit of – they had little runway and he said, “Michael Reese, we have little runway, I’ve brought on all these investors, I was told you were the guy I need to reach out to in order to turn this thing around.”

0:17:20.8 He gave me a story, I won’t get into the details just to – for confidential – it doesn’t matter. The bottom line is he got on a plane, came here, did a deal with me on a napkin, and about a year later – I don’t know the exact number.

Over, I would say 82%, but I know at one point it was over 75% of the customers that they had during this window of time had actually came from me referring him customers.

Later on I earned ownership. You know the story goes. Fast forward, they sell the thing for a quarter of a billion to Fidelity.

0:17:51.3 I was a part of all that. You go back a year, when it was Howard Tager with TigerLead, which is again, same story.

0:17:58.3 Met a guy at a conference. Brand new, first booth. Next thing you know, fast forward, you know, four or five years later, he sold the company which no one had done at the time.

0:18:07.5 The point is is that these opportunities for these entrepreneurs have – were created because at the end of the day they were filling the gap that the broker wasn’t providing.

0:18:18.0 They were investing and creating the opportunity on the arbitrage on marketing for a real estate agent. At the end of the day – listen, real estate agents aren’t marketers. Even the best ones.

0:18:29.3 I’ll tell you this, this is what – they’ve never split test. What they do is – they don’t know what the top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel.

They don’t know customer acquisition costs. They don’t know lifetime value. They don’t know how to calculate those things. They don’t even know what that means.

0:18:44.8 Most of them don’t even know how many people hit up their website, because if they did they would stop spending their money and they would start, you know, working on the conversions of their site.

Jordan: 0:18:54.4 Well most of them are basically at the poverty line right? When you look at the commissions that the average agent is making, it’s barely sustainable and barely qualifies for the functional definition of a business.

Michael: 0:19:06.3 Exactly, and that’s – my point is that these tools that I’m talking about aren’t even – this is to your original question on the broker.

The point is that the only people that could afford these tools, like these tools that existed during this time frame, were big teams. People who were at a high level of production.

0:19:24.3 So what did they do? Instead of the broker getting the split, the broker went to what they called, with caps, and they capped their market.

And so like a Keller Williams, they capped that exchange – what they had with the real estate agent, and said, “Hey, you just keep everything over this, we’ll make an economic model based upon recruiting. We’ll just recruit 200 0:19:42.9 [Inaudible] …new agents did you get?

As long as you do 2 million – whether you 2 million or ten million, we – our average revenue per unit on our economic financial model is still 18 thousand, 3 thousand royalty. We’re going to make a business out of that. You get everything else, you manage your brand, you get your own leads. XYZ.”

0:20:03.1 That is when the seven – that is when The Millionaire Real Estate Agent book came out, and said, “Hey guys, we’re going to give you the playbook. And now you’ve got fixed economic expenses for these services. We’re going to give you brick and mortars that you can work in.

We’re going to do this and do that, hang your license, do all that. Carry your E&O. You go out and figure this whole internet shit out. We’ll let the cream rise to the top, sit back and watch.

We’ll do like we did with the book and we’ll take the big guys in and do what we called our mastermind. We’ll chew up the hay spit out the straw.”

0:20:30.2 And now what they’re doing, is they’re seeing – and now they’re making those investments internally and I just don’t know that at the end of the day, they didn’t do it in the first place.

You know, at the end of the day – because they didn’t do it in the first place, they don’t have the mindset and the innovation – they don’t have the innovation in order to see how to make it all work. They see getting the customer online.

0:20:59.2 But let me tell you what they don’t see. What they don’t see is an invisible funnel on why you run something on paid search where you have somebody that’s actually – they don’t see someone running something on paid search and then 0:21:10.5 [Inaudible] and that person on Facebook and looking over at that customer acquisition cost and then running a messenger ad to them to see if they have any questions.

0:21:20.9 And split-testing, you know, 5000 different, you know, images. Like my buddy Frank Kern 0:21:23.9. He does. We do.

We spend $100,000, $200,000 a month in ads, but we can’t do that unless we scaled it. 0:21:31.6 They’re not doing that. They got one call to action that they’re all running.

And it goes back to my original statement. It’s an offer. Everybody is making the same offer to the consumer: “Search for home on our website”.

There’s no differentiated value proposition that the consumer knows why they should do business with this person.

0:21:51.0 And Warren Buffet said that 50% of your success is your ability to articulate your durable competitive advantage. Why someone should do business with you over all the alternatives.

0:21:57.7 And so the broker has a problem. The problem is they have no reason for the agent to come work for them. They should go work on a team. They go work on a team and what are the teams doing? They’re expanding now. You’ve heard of Expansion right?

Jordan: 0:22:10.2 Oh huge. Yeah. Blowing up.

Michael: 0:22:12.9 Yeah. So now what did Gary do? Gary offered – he wrote – he’s rewriting Millionaire Real Estate Agent to say, “Hey, all team captains that were top producers that were leaving – why were you leaving? You were leaving because you had to pay a quarter cap on all your buyer agents and you got so many buyer agents”

Like the guy – the number one agent, you know, in Georgia had, what? 80 agents? Well, when you’re paying a quarter cap on 80 agents, you look at that at the end of the month and say, “Hmm, paying you guys a million dollars a year for a building, I could own this building.”

0:22:43.6 So what does he do? He says, “Listen, I’m going to teach you guys an expansion model where you can leverage.”

And this was the whole pitch. You can leverage our brick and mortar and you can recruit across state lines.

The problem there, the problem there is that the team leader of broker is the governing entity that says whether Michael Reese can expand into Scottsdale, Arizona.

0:23:06.2 Which, therefore, again, the consumer always wins. The consumer being the agent. eXp comes out with the cloud-based brokerage, with the fixed cap at 16,000, with stock for the icon people with the story that is unbelievable.

0:23:23.0 And they – I mean, you saw it at Inman 0:23:23.7 last week. I mean, there’s a webinar going on right now of over a half a billion dollars and the top – the number one Keller William’s agent in the world and two of the counterparts that were in the top ten, from what I understand, I mean – they literally moved over along with the guy when I was on the phone with the guy in Silicon Valley.

0:23:45.7 He’s a top ten in all of California doing almost a quarter of a billion in sales. And this guy’s having the same question now, is, you know – these brokerages aren’t providing me anything and what is – let me tell you what eXp did.

eXp and Gary Keller – I won’t even go there. He’s a brilliant guy but unfortunately they came up with a better value proposition and here’s why.

0:24:07.6 See, at Keller Williams, which is – just for the record, it’s the largest broker in the country. Right? With the most agents. That just means they have the most people not making money.

0:24:17.5 Those people, what happens is, is that you can, you can, you can take your – they had a recruiting-based model – bottom line I don’t even want to get into it because I would hate to give them the playbook on how to compete.

0:24:30.2 eXp rewrote the book and with that being said, they made a better value proposition. They give stock to the agents, they give the agents the ability to buy stock at a discount.

0:24:42.3 When you buy stock at a discount, just so you know, the agent – if I get stock during a transaction, if I get stock when it recruits and that stock vest over time, then I have incentive not to leave.

Jordan: 0:24:53.1 So structurally, structurally. I got to stop you Mike, because I know you’re passionate about this.

The dynamic that you described earlier was that Keller Williams does not have the discipline and the infrastructure to master marketing because they do not have an economic incentive do so on an individual or on a team basis.

0:25:09.0 What economic incentive does eXp have to cultivate and to manage those marketing advanced level skills?

How are they making money at volume if there’s some kind of a – if there’s a cap?

Michael: 0:25:23.8 Well here’s the thing. I do believe Keller Williams is making that investment. I do believe that Gary Keller’s vision is to do that.

The problem is, he’s now – he gave it back – he gave it to the agents and now he’s saying, “Let me take it back and you pay me to do it.” It’s too late brother.

Why is a guy doing a quarter of a billion dollars in production in San Diego who’s making more money, you know, making – I don’t know what he’s making.

0:25:46.0 I mean, seven million in gross commission income a year. Why the hell am I going to take all my infrastructure that I built and say, “Ok, I’m going to come pay you to do it for me.” 0:25:55.8 He’s not going to.

He’s already got his boomtowns 0:25:57.4, his third-party – they came to the game too late. 0:25:59.8 So at eXp, they didn’t try to compete on that level.

They already – what they did – here’s what they did. They created – they went with the flow. They went with the flow.

It’s like a stock market. If it’s going down, short it. Right? They went with the flow. They didn’t try to play the same game, but come in and play it better too late.

They came with the game plan. And it’s game theory. 0:26:22.9 Game theory means you change one rule to the game you change the whole game.

They came with a publicly traded company, that gives – here’s what it is, compensation bias. People – compensation – this is Charlie Munger, Warren Buffet’s business partner.

He says number one decision maker in the world and he says the number one thing that drives business is compensation behaviour.

0:26:42.3 Because when you have alignment in compensation people behave that way. It’s just the way it works.

0:26:47.1 And so people who say it’s not about the money, whatever they want to say. I guarantee you people lose great people due to different economic opportunities.

0:26:55.3 And Keller Williams, don’t get me wrong, they were an opportunity business. That’s what – I didn’t say, they said it. But they don’t got any more opportunity.

0:27:02.3 But what they did on the – eXp is, the opportunity is always shared. You can always get stock at a discount. Again, an offer solves a problem.

0:27:10.8 Most agents have a hard time saving their money. Now they have a very easy way to buy stock at a 20% discount. Right out the back on every real estate transaction.

Naturally, real estate agents know mothers, fathers, sons, daughters that get in real estate. 0:27:27.5 You don’t have to tell that many people. I can go tell five people at Keller Williams and they can join one office and I never make a dollar because it’s profit share.

I tell five people in eXp, it’s revenue share off the top. I could end up paying for all of the marketing on what I never used to be able to afford due to doing what’s going to automatically happen over time in my business anyways.

I’m naturally already going to know when I’m in real estate, say, “How do I get my license?” It’s just what happens.

0:27:52.4 And so, they created a model that attracted people and aligned them. They beat them on the cap, there is no royalty, so – and the reason why they would do revenue share – think about this: Keller Williams has, you know, hundreds of millions.

I’m not – I heard a number, I won’t even repeat what it is because I don’t want to be quoted as being wrong, but I do know that it was multiple hundreds of millions in office space.

0:28:15.7 They have to pay region people. These are people that were early on. These were people that got the best opportunities. They got to pay a percentage of the money to all the regionals.

0:28:25.1 eXp doesn’t have regionals. eXp doesn’t have brick and mortar. So all of that money? They can give revenue away because they don’t have any of those expenses.

0:28:34.0 What Keller Williams does, is they have all those expenses and if there’s any profit at the end of the day, the average person’s profit share is a couple hundred bucks a year.

0:28:40.7 And I’m not doubting them for it, it was brilliant, but the difference in the game was eXp created a real opportunity for more people.

0:28:48.8 And here’s what it is: Value. You know, if you can create a lot of value for more people and do it for more people than you’re going to capture more of the market.

And they just – they created value for people who couldn’t buy a RE/MAX in 1990, who couldn’t buy a Century 21 in 1990, who couldn’t buy a ERI in 1990 and the people that were pissed off because they were at some other brokerage who got in in the ’80s.

0:29:07.8 And so what did Keller Williams do? They came in, created an economic opportunity, they bought the influencers, had them move over, and gave them an economic incentive to recruit.

0:29:17.7 And what happened? Those people then got opportunities to buy franchises and get opportunities to own percentages of the regions.

0:29:24.1 And eXp saw that and they created opportunity for everybody. And that, my friend, I think was the disruption that happened for the agent.

Jordan: 0:29:31.7 Woo, wow, let’s bottle that up. That was a very rapid history and over do it – that is exactly what I asked you for, man. That was exactly what I wanted to talk about. Was the lay of the land as it stands currently.

0:29:43.4 Now that we understand the lay of the land as you see it, and I’m pretty much in agreement with what you said. I’ve got one more, kind of broad question and then I want to go specifically into the ISA model.

The last question, you mentioned it a second ago, Charlie Munger. I want to read a quote from Charlie Munger, and get your feedback on it.

0:30:00.8 The quote is this: If the facts don’t hang together on the latticework of theory, you don’t have them in a usable form.

You’ve got to have mental models in your head. And you’ve got to array your experience, both vicarious and direct on this latticework of models.

You may have noticed students who try to remember and pound back the facts. They don’t – that doesn’t work in school and in life.

You’ve got to hang experience on the latticework of theory and that latticework of theory has to come from multiple disciplines.

0:30:32.3 And lastly, he says, “Fortunately, 80 or 90 important models will carry about 90% of the freight in making you a worldly, wise person.” 0:30:44.7 Mike, I know that you appreciate mental models. My question for you is…

Michael: 0:30:50.0 How did you know that?

Jordan: 0:30:51.9 I’ve heard you speak before. Followed some of your work. We look at guests before we get them on the show. 0:30:55.6

0:30:55.7 But my question for you is this, yeah mental models are great, anybody can understand them – my question for you is, what mental models do you find yourself most frequently calling upon? If you distil it down, give me one, give me two, give me three mental models that you derive the majority of the value from?

Michael: 0:31:14.6 Every problem has a solution. That’s my first one.

Jordan: 0:31:17.4 Possibility

Michael: 0:31:20.1 Well here’s the thing, man. Like, most people – I ran 62 miles in an ultra-marathon, ok? And I felt a lot of pain.

There was a lot of reasons – I’ve got three little boys – a lot of reasons why I shouldn’t have done it. I set a big goal this year, there’s a lot of stories – this is my personal life because I like to help people understand – not personal – personal is business.

0:31:45.8 You know, and my mental model was, is that when I thought I couldn’t do it, I realize – I don’t think that.

0:31:52.8 In fact, I’ve get freaking very high – awareness is my number one trait. I’m an Eckhart Tolle, David Hawkings, come from a place of love type of guy. That’s my core. Right?

0:32:05.3 I think love solves a lot of problems. We won’t even get into that. 0:32:07.6 And that is a mental model of mind. I always do the right thing and I surrender.

0:32:10.6 There’s a book Surrender Experiment. And I don’t try to overthink. I believe that every problem has a solution and here’s what I do: When it’s in front of me, I only worry about – I distil down everything to it’s fundamental principle, which is – Ray Dalio or Elon Musk – principle based thinking.

0:32:31.1 And then I reason up from there. And I try to assume that I’m wrong. 0:32:37.5 But I do know this, Jay Abraham gave me the mental model, “the strategist always wins.”

Michael Porter gave me the mental model, “the difference between a good and a bad strategy is the kernel.” 0:32:50.0 Meaning solving the wrong problem. You never want to solve the wrong problem. That’s what Keller Williams did. They solved the wrong – solving the wrong problem. 0:32:56.0

Jordan: 0:32:57.7 They’re leaning the right ladder against the wrong wall.

Michael: 0:33:00.9 Yeah, yeah. And I’ll tell you, eXp is – and no one’s ever said this, but they’re a platform and that’s the difference. And there’s a book called, Platform Revolution. 0:33:07.3

Jordan: 0:33:08.3 Yeah man. I’m with you, I just got that.

Michael: 0:33:12.9 Yeah, so the point is, is that – so if you think about what I’m saying – if everything is about solving problems, you have – like, some people, like they wake up, they think about their biggest problem, even if it’s personal.

0:33:24.8 When you have a problem in your personal life, it affects your business life. You can’t perform at all out.

0:33:29.1 So you have to attack the places that you’re not performing well. 0:33:33.7 In order to perform at your maximum peak. No matter where you are, the bullshit story that you tell yourself, you could always do 40% more.

So at the end of the day, people try to think they’re working – they’ve got these stories in their head and the biggest problem people have is their own thinking. 0:33:48.2 “Thinking is a constraint in itself.” That’s one of the best quotes I could ever give you.

“It’s never the problem, it’s how you’re thinking about the problem.” Another mental model.

0:33:55.0 You collect them like baseball cards. And so for me, what I do is I use these frameworks of decision making and I – and one of my best is, “number one I always assume I’m wrong”, which I got from Elon Musk.

0:34:08.1 And that puts me in learner mode. And so, — and then when I don’t agree with somebody, I try to – I seek to understand and I listen twice as hard. That’s why I’m a past president.

0:34:18.7 And so what those things do is they give me the ability – I mean, there’s – you know, I was watching this – you know, it’s like people – this is so funny to me, but I saw a guy making a joke.

Whether it’s true or false, I’m not going to get into it, but it was about – he was talking about the reasons why people’s ability – people really think the world is flat. I’m not even going to go there.

0:34:38.8 But if their framework for thinking is that limited in models, they’re working off of such a confirmation bias that they’re just – their entire life, whether it’s in that decision, every decision is trying to prove the way they think is right. And that, my friend, that would be hell on Earth.

0:34:58.1 Hell on Earth would never be growing to really get to truth. I only want one thing, I want truth. That’s it. I don’t care. Truth. Fundamental truth.

0:35:05.6 Because from there, then I know what it is and I can accept it. And then I can make the best decision.

0:35:13.6 Listen, whatever’s going to happen is going to happen. What I am in control of is what I do. If I base my decision by off of information that’s not true, I might have made the wrong decision and success is just the basis of making the right decisions, you know, the right decisions in a row.

0:35:32.4 And some of your decisions that equal your success.

0:35:35.3 So, at the end of the day, you know, I go with, you know, those handful of mental models, but what supersedes everything, man, where one of my buddies is one of the baddest athletes on the planet – he’s a navy seal, he’s broke a lot of records, his name is David Goggins.

0:35:51.9 He’s in a book called, Living with a SEAL. He just was on Rogan’s podcast this week. And I took him to the UFC fight and another buddy of mine that I introduced to him, has been working with him more closely than I have, but we text back and forth every once in awhile, and I wrote about him in my book, The Experience.

He changed my thinking. But here’s what he – here’s what he said, he said, “When you’re in a place, and you’re – in business,” which is where most people make bad decisions.

They’re making bad decisions because of money, making bad decisions because of a previous bad decision that they’re trying – I mean, like literally, they made a bad decision and instead of just accepting that decision and what Warren Buffet called, ‘The Shutdown Point’, they make another one and another one.

They don’t stop and get to the kernel, solve the real problem. He says, “You have to be as calm as brushing your teeth.”

He goes, “When I’m getting shot at and I’m outnumbered,” in real life, “my life comes down to how calm I am.”

And he says, “You have to be as calm as brushing your teeth when you’re in the heat of battle.” Right?

0:36:58.7 And so I believe that mental fortitude and strength, which is what we all are – you know, we’re either – and it’s not strength of running 62 miles, it’s the strength of getting out when it’s cold and running because you know that’s what your goals are aligned to and you’re supposed to do it. Right?

0:37:16.3 It’s doing the things you want to do when the motivation of wanting to do them has left. And so, like, for me it’s making those really, you know – one of my other mentors said, “Mike you have to increase the decisions you make per day, per week, per month, per year.”

0:37:33.9 And so, like, I mean – that’s what I do. I don’t – you don’t want to have decision. Make a decision, come up with the mental model for making the decision – what decisions have you been – do you need to make? What are the biggest things that are in front of you that you’re not making decisions on which we call ‘wait stations’.

0:37:52.3 What things are you waiting on? What things are in your control. And how do you double down on your decisions per day, per week, per year?

0:37:57.2 If you could get twice the amount of decisions – and use a framework for making and getting them right more than you have been, then you grow. Your business grows, everything grows.

0:38:05.2 And so, some of those things that keep us from making those decisions are just – they’re just weaknesses. And so, the reason I’ve got into running ultra-marathons, which I would have never done, was because I wanted to put my mind up against those decisions of real hard choices.

0:38:26.7 When I’m at the fourth of July, sitting on an ice cooler with all of my family, about to do the things I love to do: Making fish, get on a 0:38:35.0 [Inaudible] and I’ve gotta put in ten miles.

And if I don’t go right now then I’m going to have to do it when we get off the lake, when they’re cooking the hamburgers and throwing horseshoes.

0:38:45.3 And that means – and then my sons go to bed at 7:00 and that’s the most important thing to me and I miss the whole damned day. So, I got 30 seconds or it’s probably not going to happen. And I put on my shoes and I run on the pavement, whether it’s warm, cold – and that’s what I did. July – 400 miles I think is what we ran in July.

0:39:03.3 That was the hardest thing I’d ever done. I set a goal and I set what I thought was my highest amount of miles I’d ever run and then I doubled it. 0:39:10.0 And it was a huge commitment.

But you know how many days, every single day, from the minute I woke up, that I was first into thinking different. Like, “Shit how am I going to get it done today? I’ve got all this stuff to do. There ain’t no time.”

You know what? I got it done. 0:39:24.7 But what I learned, was I learned all the bullshit that my mind tells myself every single day.

And once you get that hyper-awareness of your mind and the BS that you’re telling yourself and you realize that, “Shoot man, a lot of people just live to that music every day. They stop at the store, they get the slushy,” they just – man, they’re like on a damned undertow of whatever is just floating around in life instead of being intentional.

0:39:51.6 And so, you know, I just think that, like, at the end of the day, you’re mind, you know, — I don’t really care about money, bro.

I drive the same car I drove when I got into real estate. I just got it from the transmission shop. I got the third transmission, put it into it yesterday. I got 300,000 miles on it and I could buy any car that I want to. I don’t give a shit about money.

0:40:08.7 I don’t want to be motivated by money, I don’t want to make decisions based upon money.

Money to me means nothing. I want to create value and value for people and I believe that if you can align your passion to what you really, truly that you – authentically, you can talk about – you don’t need a book, you don’t need bullets, you don’t need someone to tell you, this is how you think, this is who you are. 0:40:29.1 Right?

And so for me, it’s about, you know – I want to be the best father that I can be, I want to be the best husband that I can be, and I know that every day that I 0:40:38.0 [Inaudible] can keep that and when my wife wants me to do something – because of running I do it.

0:40:42.2 Because I learned when I said, “Man, I can’t run 60 miles.” Sometimes they’ll just tell me, “Hey, can you do this and do that.” In the past I would want to make an excuse of why I’m not going to do it, I’m like, “Shit dude, if I can run 62 miles I can’t get my ass up off the couch and go do this for 16 seconds?” Do you know what I mean?

0:40:58.5 Like, it just put everything into perspective for me and it was a gift that David Goggins gave me. And it was probably one of the biggest gifts that I’m so fortunate – and you’re talking to a guy that’s 238 pounds, 6’2. I shouldn’t be running that far. You know? But I can tell you that it was the best thing that every happened to me.

Jordan: 0:41:19.1 Wow. Wow. Guys, you’re going to want to re-wind the tape on that. We just covered a lot of ground.

Started off with the high-level you of mental models, dove into the acknowledgment that the mind is what matters and then looped it back into the activities and the disciplines that you can use to provide some kind of a tangible, physical reality, cognition element or driver for you to appreciate the power of how your mind really dictates how you perceive the world and how action comes from that. Love the recap on that.

0:41:50.8 Mike, I’m going to make an audible. We’re going to edit this out, but we’re just going to cut the ISA stuff. We don’t have time to talk about that, so we’re just going to keep to the higher-level stuff and we’ll keep going there. 0:41:58.5

0:41:58.6 Mike, another thing I wanted to ask you, when we pivot off the mental models and we talk about day to day action, you just mentioned the sacrifice that you made recently with exercise. Using that not as the thing, but as a proxy to see differently and achieve other things.

0:42:19.4 What else and what other things have you given up over the last few years in order to achieve your vision and your goals? 0:42:27.6 What strategic sacrifices have you made?

Michael: 0:42:30.8 You know, that’s funny, man. I quit drinking. You know, I was speaking on stage behind George Bush three years ago.

He had just written a book called…what was it called? It was called – holy moly – it was called – it might have been decision something.

Anyways, I was in Las Vegas, I was speaking on stage at a huge event and I had the opportunity to meet with him.

0:43:01.2 And before meeting, I was sitting kind of back behind some secret service people that were there, and I was about 15 feet from him onstage. Now guys, I mean I’m just telling you, I had only been gambling and drinking and that’s all I’ve – I’m not a really big drinker but I had been drinking that night with a friend of mine that has – that is very successful.

0:43:23.2 And we were up – he was up a lot of money. More money than I would ever spend. I’m not sharing the number, but just to put this in context, he was up a lot of money and at the time when I left him and we decided to call it quits, he was down about $100,000.

0:43:35.9 And he knows a lot of people in Vegas and it was an amazing experience. And so, I told him I needed to go to this event but I was going to skip it and my wife texted me, “My Dad is so proud of you.”

And I said, “Why?”

And she was like, “You know, you’re going to be able to…” — I was about to skip the meeting with George Bush, I was going to skip it to go gamble and drink more. I mean, c’mon right?

0:43:59.0 And when she sent me that text, I literally went to my room, changed everything, brushed my teeth like, three times, and I got across town to the event where – to meet with him.

0:44:13.2 And so, I actually, I actually – it was a three day event – I spoke the day before, so I actually went out the night after I spoke and that night was a long night. And it was the next day.

0:44:26.2 And so I’m sitting there and George Bush tells a story about – his book’s called Decision something. I read it to my son, it’s an amazing book.

0:44:34.6 And he’s sitting in the chair and he’s – I mean, 15 feet from me and the whole auditorium is dark and the light’s on him and he’s sitting in a chair.

0:44:43.5 And he tells a story that I feel like he’s telling my story. 0:44:46.6 He’s telling a story about drinking a little bit too much and being in Colorado and kind of walking around the table and he was just describing himself.

0:44:54.1 And, you know, I had – I understood him. And I was like, “Man, he’s kind of like me.” You know, for a second. And then he dovetails the story into when his wife asked him one day, “Hey George, when’s the last day you haven’t had a drink?”

0:45:13.6 And I remembered my wife asking me that. And just – guys, you know, it’s not even like it sounds. I’m going to share the story, I mean, I’m just – you know, I’m a real estate professional. I travel, people offer me a drink. You know, I get two glasses of wine on Saturday.

0:45:27.4 Well, he goes and tells the story that he went to the country club – I’m paraphrasing like, “On Tuesdays I did this, on Wednesdays I would go here, we’d play cards on Friday”, and so it’s – actually the entire story that he told from stage is how the book opens, just coincidentally.

0:45:42.9 He was just telling part of the book. I didn’t know that at the time. And so, there was a lot of – I resonated with everything he was saying. It was like he was living in my life.

And then he said – why – and it’s like the – Decision Points I think is the book – and he said why the biggest decision that he ever made was he wouldn’t – it was basically that he wouldn’t have been President if he didn’t quit drinking.

0:46:12.2 And it wasn’t that, you know – he wasn’t leading to the fact that he was an alcoholic. That’s what you refer to when you think people drink too much.

0:46:21.0 But that’s not what he was saying. And it is Decision Points. What he was saying was that the decisions that he was making were impacted by his drinking and that the decisions that he would have to make to become President, that has nothing to do with being an alcoholic, which is what people will refer to drinking, which I don’t think he was referring to him as.

0:46:43.9 He was just saying, “Guys, listen. These amazing decisions and reaching our total limit potential, you’ve just really got to level up.”

And so, you know what, dude? 0:46:52.4 Like, I just understood what he was saying and I was like, “Dude, the decision not even to be here would have been because of drinking.”

I would never have heard this, I would have never felt this way. I’d have never had this awareness and so I was like, “You know, I’m just not going to drink.”

I didn’t tell nobody. It was about nine months til someone figured it out. They heard – they were like, “Man, I haven’t seen you have a drink.”

0:47:11.6 And you know, I’ve been to the X Games, all of these things, amazing events, and I would just say, “No I’ll pass.”

0:47:18.7 And what I learned was nothing good happens after midnight. I’d learned that from a buddy who – that’s what they tell the guys – that’s a mental model when they go into the NFL.

They tell the new recruits, “Nothing good happens after midnight.” 0:47:28.2 And I just started adapting these disciplines and, you know, even as I tell you right now, I’m just – I’m hyper aware of the decisions that I make and I’m super critical.

And this isn’t me, dude, this is the guy that runs the largest hedge-fund in the world. This is Ray Dalio. You know. 0:47:47.9 And Elon Musk says, “Humans – natural human tendency is wishful thinking.”

Jordan: 0:47:53.0 Yep.

Michael: 0:47:53.2 And Ray Dalio says, “You have to be a hyper-realist.”

And so, what I’ve done is I’ve become extremely hyper-real. I am very hyper-critical with myself on where I am just totally not doing a good job.

Whether it’s, you know, like, if I’m coming home and, you know, I’m on my phone a whole bunch – like right now that’s one of the things that I’m hyper-aware of, is that, like, with my kids, the time in which I used to call my ‘jam sessions’ which was 90 minutes no electronics.

0:48:23.0 I come home, full attention. That’s what’s on my subconscious right now. Because right now, with the way things are happening in my life, I’m totally taking their time back, which that used to be our most precious time.

And I’m coming in and a five minute call’s turned into 49 minutes and then the next thing, you know, they only got 12 minutes of my time.

0:48:41.9 Even though I’m in the same room as them, there’s no quality time. 0:48:45.1 And so, like, when I was laying in bed last night, I literally – I’m telling you my natural – this is what I was thinking – I was sitting there by myself, in my bed, thinking I have to attack this.

0:48:55.1 I have to – I was actually watching the Joe Rogan podcast with my buddy David Goggins, and David was talking about – he had made a comment about freeing himself from electronics every once in awhile and the power of that.

0:49:09.5 What it has on his mind. And I was like, “Damn dude, he’s saying exactly what I was saying.” ‘Cause what I used to do, is my – everyday when I left to work, my cell phone went into my backpack, and my backpack and my computer stayed in my car until after my kids went to bed. And then I went and got my backpack.

0:49:26.2 You know what I mean? And so, you know, I’m just trying to, you know, I’m just trying to be the best person I can be, and I’m just trying to prioritize where I invest my time.

0:49:33.0 I’m trying not to give money, you know – I do what I do to create value but, you know – I’ll tell you what, man, my Dad said, you know “If money solves your problems, you don’t have real problems.” 0:49:46.2 And that’s just a true statement, man. I woke up.

Jordan: 0:49:51.9 I like that.

Michael: 0:49:52.4 Yeah. You complain about no shoes until you meet a man with no feet. You know?

And what tears me up, dude, is one day I woke up and my son, my three year old – I’ve got a six year old, a four year old, and a two year old, and one day my six year old, he couldn’t move below his neck.

0:50:08.5 He couldn’t walk, he couldn’t do nothing. I mean, this is a genetic freak. I mean the guy looks like he’s a bodybuilder. Everybody says – I mean, he’s off the charts. He’s a good-looking, amazing kid.

And, you know, just a great kid, and he couldn’t, he couldn’t, he couldn’t move below his neck. And there was about a 90 day period where you Google and me my wife started sleeping in separate beds.

0:50:29.3 It was like getting hit by a train, bro. It was like life changed and everything that – I was blessed to get perspective. Like, that’s really. It was a reset bro. It was a reset.

Like, all this stupid stuff that we think really matters. Nothing mattered. Nothing mattered. Nothing. I would have given anything to just, you know, have that problem not be there.

And the good news is it all worked out. 0:50:54.3 And it ended up being – it – I mean, I was at the hospital, it’s an amazing story. I don’t want to ramble on too much on the podcast about it, but it was an amazing story.

0:51:04.5 The battle – it was a misdiagnosis – they misdiagnosed my son and there was this certain auto-immune thing that happens to kids that are blonde haired, blue eyes, at the age of four. Which my son is blonde haired, blue eyes, and he was four, which is weird in itself.

0:51:23.6 But long story short, my son ended up having – because – there’s also this natural thing where some people don’t show signs of strep.

And he got strep in school and went undiagnosed for almost 90 days to the point where he almost ended up septic.

0:51:39.1 But no one had ever gave him – I mean, we went to specialists and doctors and no one had ever given the kid an antibiotic.

0:51:44.3 And he got to the point where he was literally about to die. He could not walk. And we were at the best hospitals in the world. And finally, my 0:51:52.7 [Inaudible] who’s in the medical field was the one that kind of reverse engineered the symptoms and gave a suggestion and we ordered this one test and blessed that we literally gave him an antibiotic and he was perfect.

0:52:05.9 But I mean, literally, I was crushed. And I remember thinking, like, that kids are so important and even though that I was blessed that I’d dodged a bullet, that somebody in that room, this week, didn’t dodge a bullet. 0:52:21.1 And that I don’t need to take a bullet in order to…

Jordan: Be aware.

Michael: 0:52:28.6 No, to get involved for a cause. Like, so many people have a cause that – because something happened to them and so now they’re going to go out and make a difference.

0:52:38.9 And I was like, you know, I just prayed and I said, you know, you don’t have to give me any bad things for me to get involved and do good.

I’m just going to commit to doing good and just now that that’s my true intention, that my heart – and to be honest with you, there’s promises that I made during that time that I – that are still not kept.

You know, for helping children entrepreneurs and just whatever I can do to help, you know, I just go – internally thankful, because – and if money solves your problems, you ain’t got problems.

Jordan: 0:53:12.0 Wow man, this interview has gone in places that I didn’t expect, but it’s all been good. That is an amazing story and so glad to hear that your son is actually doing well and pulled out.

And grateful for that moment for perspective. It is amazing how one experience can shift a life. You can see things that you can’t unsee.

0:53:32.0 I do want to tie our interview together by kind of closing out with a rapid-fire section of the interview.

0:53:38.9 And Michael, I just want to get some guttural answers from you on a series of questions.

0:53:43.6 And the first question is this: If you were starting over today, what would be your first C-suite hire? CFO. CMO. COO. Etc.

Michael: 0:53:58.2 If I was starting out, it would be, it would be a CFO. I’ve got a buddy named Jeff. He’s ran 27 startups and he lives here now, but man, this guys builds me economic models that are unbelievable.

0:54:14.6 He actually – he just – he never was for hire. 0:54:17.3 [Inaudible] But he ties our stuff for all of my businesses down to the Facebook ads. I mean, he builds data warehouses.

0:54:24.4 He was in Silicon Valley. He relocated here. He’s working on a book right now and he worked under his uncle who was an amazing guy. Harvard MBA.

0:54:32.8 And dude, like the intelligence that I have, the intelligence that I have where I don’t have to guess, where I can make really good business decisions based on data is that. 0:54:43.7 So I’d hire a CFO who basically would tell me the truth. And tell me really what was working and not working.

And that would be – and when I say CFO, you know, I now that my limits in thinking is that I’d have to hire a full-time one.

I would go – if I had a business that was doing a million dollars, I would go hire this guy 100% tomorrow, because it’s pennies and I would have what Jeff Bezos has to run his business – I’d have for my small business.

I’d have that type of financial and data on my customer acquisition. Everything. 0:55:23.1 With someone that would help me. I would grow faster, make better decisions. It’s just a game changer.

Jordan: 0:55:28.1 Wow. Love it. 0:55:31.2 Hey, I don’t mean to sound like a dick, but let’s keep the rest of the answers on these next few questions super tight. Next question.

Michael: Yeah no problem. 0:55:36.0

Jordan: 0:55:37.4 Next question Mike. What has been your biggest marketing failure?

Michael: 0:55:43.0 Edit Out Biggest marketing failure.

Jordan: Shopping carts man.

Michael: Yeah yeah yeah. No, you’re ready? 0:55:58.0 Edit Out

0:55:59.0 My biggest marketing failure would be having the wrong ideal client. Meaning the product and having the wrong actual – the product and the target market mismatch. That’s been my biggest.

Jordan: 0:56:15.5 Love it. 0:56:16.2 Best hire you ever made?

Michael: 0:56:18.6 Inside sales. Period. 100%. Someone who…

Jordan: 0:56:23.6 I thought you were going to say that, man. I figured you’d say that. I love it. 0:56:27.0 Who would you rather spend a day with? Elon Musk, Warren Buffet, or yourself 12 months ago?

Michael: 0:56:35.4 Oh, ok, can I give myself advice 12 months ago?

Jordan: Yep.

Michael: 0:56:38.2 Oh myself 12 months ago. Period.

Jordan: 0:56:42.0 Alright. That’s telling. 0:56:43.3 College or pro sports?

Michael: 0:56:46.7 College.

Jordan: 0:56:46.8 Pat Green or Zack Brown?

Michael: 0:56:50.8 Damn, that’s a hard one. Man, I’m going to go – that is a very hard one. I’m going to go Zack Brown. Yeah, Zack Brown.

Jordan: 0:56:58.4 Water skiing or snow skiing?

Michael: 0:57:01.7 Snow boarding.

Jordan: 0:57:03.2 Fair enough. 0:57:03.7 Mexico versus British Virgin Islands?

Michael: 0:57:07.1 British Virgin Islands.

Jordan: 0:57:09.1 Barbara Corcoran or Gary Keller?

Michael: 0:57:12.5 Garry Keller, man. I’ll give him some props.

Jordan: 0:57:15.2 Nurture or MQL?

Michael: 0:57:23.1 Great dang question. That is a hard one. But, man, I’d rather have an MQL. It’s closer to the money.

Jordan: 0:57:32.0 Data or instinct?

Michael: 0:57:34.8 Data.

Jordan: 0:57:36.6 Motivation or discipline?

Michael: 0:57:39.7 Discipline.

Jordan: 0:57:40.6 Final interview question. I ask this of every guest. Michael Reese, in your opinion, are entrepreneurs born or bred?

Michael: 0:57:52.9 Man. You know, I’m going to say – I’m going to go with bred, because I think I understand your interpretation of ‘bred’.

But I think – I don’t think you’re born an entrepreneur. I believe that entrepreneurs are created based upon their circumstances and so they are born into circumstances but the way that they’re – and so if I interpreted your question wrong, I apologize, but I think most people, their circumstances, their life, and their family and everything determine if they’re an entrepreneur or not.

Jordan: 0:58:31.6 Michael, that was one helluva interview. Where can folks go to listen more. If they want to read more about what you’re up to.

If they want to get a copy of your upcoming book, your past books, what’s the best place for them to go.

Michael: 0:58:42.4 Man, you can go to DigitalPresident.com. That is a – that’s a site. We got a podcast as well. It’s just helping anybody really.

Helping anybody who wants to get customers. You know, we’ve done a lot and I would say that, you know, we’ve put everything into that thing and we’re extremely proud of it and we’re going to continue to provide value to the marketplace through that platform.

Jordan: 0:59:11.8 Folks, stay in touch, follow this guy online. Unlike a lot of guests, I have followed Mike’s career pretty closely. I can personally endorse his work and his body of thought.

It’s worth following and staying on this train. Mike, thanks again for coming on the show today.

Michael: 0:59:28.9 Thank you buddy.

0:59:30.6 – 0:59:45.0