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Using Content to Sell with Michael Fisher

Using Content to Sell with Michael Fisher

Today, I’m talking with Michael Fisher, the owner of multiple Real Property Management franchises that manage close to 700 doors.  

In today’s episode, you’ll learn about Michael’s approach to content creation, how this strategy helps his company stand out, and how you can use these lessons to generate a measurable ROI in your own PM business.

If your business hasn’t invested in content yet, then this is the episode for you

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Topics covered:

  • (01:48) – Background Leading up to Today
      • (01:55) – Michael discusses how he got started in property management.
      • (02:23) – His beginnings with Real Property Management.
      • (05:21) – Michael’s transition from working with corporate to becoming an operator.
      • (07:18) – What Michael’s business looks like today.
        • (07:55) – Discussing the pros and cons of having long-distance, remote locations.
        • (13:47) – Responsibilities handled centrally versus regionally.
  • (17:31) – Using Content to Impact the Buying Cycle
      • (18:16) – Michael explains what content marketing represents to him.
        • (18:59) – Trust.
        • (20:12) – Value.
      • (21:47) – Michael discusses how he had to overcome fears of presenting himself to the public.
        • (23:41) – Document versus create mindset.
      • (28:21) – The actual practical applications of the content that Michael is currently focused on.
        • (29:02) – Breaking different content streams into ‘brands’.
      • (35:09) – Influencing existing clients to purchase more properties in the interest of wealth creation.
        • (40:00) – The mechanics behind this manner of influence.
  • (42:34) – Deal Syndication
    • (42:34) – Discussing incremental investment.
    • (44:38) – Why single-family real estate is a bad, long-term investment.
      • (45:04) – Least opportunity for the greatest return on investment.
      • (45:14) – Fluctuating rents and volatile markets.
      • (46:30) – The role of government.
    • (50:35) – Thoughts on getting clients into the multi-family asset class.

Rapid-fire Questions:

  • (56:31) – What impact has your wrestling background had on your business career?
  • (59:14) – What advice do you have on business partnerships?
  • (1:00:42) – Who do you learn from?
  • (1:02:40) – If you could go back to the beginning of your career, what advice would you give to yourself?
  • (1:03:40) – Are entrepreneurs born or bred?

Resources mentioned:

Where to learn more:

If you want to get in touch with Michael find him on Instagram: @dreamdrivenlife.


Jordan: 0:00:00.0 Welcome closers. Today we have another episode of The Profitable Property Management Podcast coming at you. This is Season Two on sales and I’m your host Jordan Muela.

Every week I interview world-class property management entrepreneurs and industry experts who share actionable insights to help you grow your property management empire.

0:00:15.8 Whether you manage 100 units or 1000, this broadcast is designed to help you see the big picture and give you the tools and tactics that you need to get to next level.

0:00:26.1 Today I’m talking with Michael Fisher, the owner of multiple Real Property Management franchises that manages close to 700 doors.

In today’s episode, you’re going to learn about Michael’s approach to content creation, why he’s doubled down on this strategy, the mindset, the motivation behind that, and how you can use that to generate ROI in your own business.

0:00:47.7 So, if you’ve thought about marketing – content marketing, if you’ve thought about getting serious about branding, putting yourself out there, sharing your expertise, we’re going to talk to somebody that’s actually making that commitment and seeing what it’s like first hand.

0:01:02.5 If you enjoy this show head over to iTunes, leave a review. The more reviews we get the more, and the better the guests we’re actually able to have on the show.

0:01:12.3 Let’s go ahead and dive in. Welcome to the show Michael.

Michael: 0:01:15.4 Thank you so much for having me.

Jordan: 0:01:17.6 So, Mike, we’ve know each other for a number of years now. I wanted to have you on the show for a couple of reasons.

0:01:23.0 I think, in large part, it was because I like how you think. You’re one of those folks that I kind of think of as embracing the mindset side of the business.

0:01:31.5 Some folks get a little resistant when we talk about things that sound too much like self-help or motivation, etc. But my personal view is that mindset is everything.

0:01:43.1 And I’ve seen how you’ve kind of been on a personal journey in that regard for yourself within the business.

0:01:48.5 So, I’m excited to talk shop, but give our listeners a little bit of background. How did you get into property management?

Michael: 0:01:55.8 Well, you know, I was roofing houses and I was on the roof one day and decided to – I was up there and said, “Man, I just don’t want to do this my whole life.”

0:02:03.8 And so, I sold the company, moved to Utah. Was doing mortgages and I just saw the writing on the wall.

0:02:11.2 I knew that wasn’t sustainable so I was in the process of looking for something sustainable over market fluctuations over a long period of time. 0:02:19.5 Up markets, down markets, you know, what was sustainable.

0:02:23.5 And I was actually at church and I was teaching an adult Sunday school class. An adult Bible class, and the founder of Real Property Management approached me and said, “Hey, I’d like to talk to you.”

0:02:39.2 And as he talked to me the next day he told me about property management and that sustainability.

0:02:47.4 And I knew that – boy that’s the direction I want for myself and my family. And so I stopped doing mortgages at the, you know, very boisterous disapproval of my father-in-law. Saying how ridiculous it was, and things like that. 0:03:07.4 And he went down with the mortgage crash ship.

And so, years later, took me out to lunch, says like, “Man, I am so glad that you made the change that you did”, and so was I.

0:03:19.5 So there was exactly zero Real Property Management franchises when I started, so – helped from the ground up.

I was the second employee and there was an admin person and myself and just started building the company. Got it to about 80 franchises and then decided to start purchasing the franchises myself. 0:03:39.6 And never looked back.

Jordan: 0:03:41.2 Oh, so you’re saying that your path was working with corporate for awhile before you jumped in as an actual operator.

Michael: 0:03:46.7 I did yeah. If I had to transfer somebody to the legal department I just transferred them to myself. And then if they wanted to talk to the marketing department, well that was me too. And franchise sales.

And so, it did really two things for me. 0:04:00.8 We spoke just earlier – or you spoke just earlier about the mindset – I have – I owe all of that really to Kirk McGary. He comes from an accounting and software development background. And he doesn’t come from property management.

0:04:20.6 I think when we look at things, having been in the industry, it keeps us from looking at things in a different way.

0:04:30.7 And he really did. He looked at things in a different way. And really changed, I think, really changed the industry and now we’re seeing some other, you know, national – more national management companies pop up. And things.

And really, everybody really elevated their game as a result of some of the things that he did. 0:04:51.1 And really, you know, rightfully so, kind of copied many of the things that he was doing.

0:04:56.6 And so, that really, that’s where the mindset really comes from, is being profitable, changing industries. Kind of the Apple mindset of challenging the status quo in the industry.

Jordan: 0:05:13.6 So how many years did you work with corporate before you became an operator?

Michael: 0:05:17.8 I was there for about, I want to say three years. You know, two or three years.

Jordan: 0:05:21.7 Alright. And so then what was the transition like when you actually became an operator? Was it what you thought it would be like? How did that go?

Michael: 0:05:32.0 Having – so once a franchise began, I was involved. I did all the training. Helped them develop the company.

And so that background really – I knew what to expect. I’d already dealt with many of those problems. 0:05:49.1 I don’t think my wife was as ready for the late nights.

There was a period of time that I worked for the corporate office and then grew the property management and worked in the evenings.

That’s when I did all the showings and all the customer calls and everything until I got it to a number of units that was sustainable for my family. 0:06:07.9 And so, man it was hard work, but definitely worth it.

0:06:11.8 I think – you know, a lot of people think, “Boy, I’ll just get into property management and it’s residual, and it’s great,” and I had somebody at church, actually, again, approach me and say, “Hey, I’d like to take you out to lunch.”

0:06:26.5 And he decided after speaking to me and seeing the freedom that I had with my family and things through business ownership and property management and decided, “Hey, I’m going to do the same thing.”

0:06:36.8 And went and started a property management company and about a year and a half later, stops me and says, “I wish I would’ve taken somebody else out to lunch, because this is horrible.”

And it is. 0:06:51.5 We deal with so many different things. And really, you know, a lot of those things – and we’ve talked about this a little bit – our transition and the focus on multi-family.

0:07:05.0 A lot of the problems that we have in property management, they’re my fault. They’re my fault. 0:07:13.2 And the way over the years that I think that we’ve been failing our clients.

Jordan: 0:07:18.1 Alright. Well I want to get into that, because I think I know where you’re going to take it, but before we do that, just a little bit more context on the business.

Offices, locations, head count. Just give me some basic parameters so folks can kind of understand what the operation looks like.

Michael: 0:07:33.4 Yeah. So we’re in a number of states. So we’re in Salt Lake – was my first. Because we’re living here. Salt Lake.

I’m originally from Portland and so that made sense. So, have an office over there in Portland. Have an office in Columbia, South Carolina expanding to Greenville, South Carolina. And then also Reno, Nevada.

Jordan: 0:07:55.0 So, I gotta ask. Why are these so far spread out? I’m from Texas. I’m recording this in Austin, Texas right now.

If I thought about being multi-market, Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio sounds great, because they’re all in driving distance.

What you did, 0:08:09.4 these couldn’t be further apart from geographic United States. Was that intentional?

What’s it like managing offices in such disparate areas? And how often do you get out to each physical site? 0:08:20.4

Michael: 0:08:23.2 Yeah, it’s – the one thing that we didn’t really count on, and I think the easiest example is South Carolina – for all those listeners in the south, especially South Carolina, it is a different world. It is not the west, that is for sure.

0:08:45.5 And so, the – we weren’t really prepared, and I’ve heard other franchises – I remember one franchise in Oklahoma City – so they’re also from Utah, the Salt Lake area – open a franchise in Oklahoma City, and they experienced kind of the same thing.

0:09:05.2 Culturally, Oklahoma is different. The pace is a lot slower. 0:09:10.2 The time it took to close a client and the decision process was a lot slower.

In Columbia it’s a little bit similar. There’s two major cultural challenges in that environment, and one of them being – saying they kind of take a little bit longer to make decisions.

0:09:31.9 It’s not uncommon for somebody to get back to you six months, a year later after they just dropped off the face of the Earth, and said, “Hey yeah, I already decided you guys and just getting around to it.” You know.

0:09:42.0 So that’s one challenge in that market. 0:09:45.6 And then the other challenge out there is culturally, they just don’t like like making changes.

We find so many clients that finally come over to us after just being totally mistreated, taken advantage of and they just kind of stick with the same thing so much instead of making the changes. 0:10:11.0 And so, culturally, we weren’t really prepared for that.

0:10:15.5 Out in the Portland area, it’s a different culture. They keep Portland weird, as they say. And it is. They’re doing a great job of doing that.

But the government challenges – our number one competitor is not a property management company, it’s not self-managed homeowners, it’s the government.

0:10:35.0 And city councils across the country, especially in some of the liberal – more liberal and progressive markets. Their – city councils are figuring out that they don’t need the state legislature.

That they have the ability to legislate all on their own. 0:10:52.2 And that’s exactly what they’re doing. And so, they’re putting in just all sorts of different regulations to “protect tenants”. And it’s a big challenge.

But distance, however, I would recommend for anyone to extract themselves from whatever property management or whatever market they’re in, and manage it long distance. It will make you a better business owner. Period. 0:11:16.2 It will make you better.

You’re not there to fix the toilet, and so, in property management oftentimes we have this, “if it’s going to be done, I’m going to do it” type attitude and so they keep themselves from growing as a result of how it’s structured and the amount, you know, — they’re working in their business instead of on their business so often. 0:11:43.7 And it’s so easy to get sucked into that.

And so, really, having that long distance, at least in one market, I would recommend to do that. Where it will open your mind to how your business really should be run. And so it’s excellent.

0:12:02.3 And great, great people. We have great people. That is critical. It’s – to be able to do that, you have to be able to trust your people.

Jordan: 0:12:13.6 Alright, so I’m picking up what you’re laying down. So the discipline of not being able to default back into that lowest common denominator, “Oh it’s broken. Oh there’s another fire, I’ll put it out, I’ll pull it out.” That’s a temptation to go back to. Low wage, low paying activities. Right?

0:12:31.3 As a business owner, if you think about the – a high/low graph, a visualization where you have skills on one side and you have the overall economic value associated with a given activity. We’re trying to be in the top right, right?

0:12:48.2 We’re trying to be in that sweet spot where we’re creating the most value within the business and we can command the highest paycheque as a result.

0:12:54.8 But anytime that we’re doing that low-level work, there’s – it is not possible to build a high-growth, high-value business doing ten dollar an hour work.

0:13:05.0 So, in so much as we give into that temptation to revert back to doing that kind of work, we’re sabotaging ourselves.

0:13:11.2 Not being physically present is a little bit of a barrier to doing that kind of work. I get it.

That said, with four offices in four different states, where are you getting leverage and efficiency? 0:13:25.4 It’s interesting to me that you’re working within a franchise, which ideally kind of has some back office services.

There’s some – you’re supposed to get some benefits of scale. Within the context of your little four shop empire, what do you do centrally as opposed to how things get done for each individual office?

Michael: 0:13:47.1 That’s a phenomenal question. That’s one of the ways that we’ve broken free from the, I guess the official franchise system.

0:13:54.6 Many property management companies, because of their size and, really, it’s easier, it does make sense to work off of what I call “The Portfolio Model”.

0:14:05.0 Where a property manager manages a portfolio of properties and they do everything for them. They do the marketing, they do the showings, they do the, you know, the rent – they’re entering the rents, they post the notices, they do the running around. And they do all that and they manage, you know, 80, 120 properties or so.

0:14:20.7 And, you know, companies that are – still don’t have success – the difficulty with that, that we’ve discovered – and this is the advantage to being a part of a franchise that has over 300 locations, is data and information and experiences come back from not only different markets, but just from different franchises at different stages.

0:14:47.5 Really no one in the franchise system knew how to manage, most efficiently, 1000 properties until one of the franchises out in Colorado did it. 0:14:57.3 And they discovered that, “Hey this portfolio model doesn’t work.”

0:15:02.6 And so what we did is – the first thing that we did is we departmentalized. And everybody comes with a certain set of strengths. Some of them have sales strengths, some of them have accounting strengths and they’re happiest in those roles.

0:15:17.3 If you have an accountant go and take a sales call, they are not going to be happy for very long. And they’re going to find somewhere else.

0:15:25.1 So, our employees stay longer as we kind of departmentalize. And so, we centralize accounting. We, to a point, have centralized some of our sales where that’s – we’re able to do, you know, all the training here centrally and things like that. 0:15:43.0 And so, that’s been centralized.

0:15:45.7 There’s obviously some people on the ground that, you know, the leasing department is departmentalized. You obviously have to be physically present, so that’s not centralized.

0:15:59.2 So it’s each of those different departments. And that allows a property manager to manage 2-300 properties easily as you start. And then all you do is you just start carving things off. 0:16:15.1 It might be maintenance coordinating.

0:16:16.8 So all of a sudden, once you get to a certain level, that chunk of work comes off and now they can manage another 100, 150 properties. And then you just keep carving off bits and making a department out of that.

0:16:30.7 And then, now people are specialized, they’re trained, they are experts in each of those areas. Because that’s what they do all day long. And they’re the best person to answer an accounting question because that’s what they do all day long. They know every ins and and outs of whatever management software you’re using and they can best serve the customer.

Jordan: 0:16:53.3 So there’s so many different takes on management structure. Whether or not you do a traditional portfolio, departmentalization. Most people are saying they’re doing a hybrid.

The last two guests I talked to are – told me that they actually do both. They have a subset of their properties that they manage with a departmental structure and another set of their properties that they manage with a portfolio structure. 0:17:13.6 I had two guests in a row tell me that. Never heard that before. I thought it was pretty interesting.

The point is, a lot of different ways to skin a cat. But the things that are tried and true across all of those are service, customer experience. 0:17:26.3 It doesn’t matter what structure you have, that’s what we’re all really optimizing for.

0:17:31.6 So, I do want to kind of transition to talking a little bit about some of the content marketing, which does relate to the service experience.

0:17:39.9 Before we talk about recording videos and what camera you use, blah, blah, blah – all that stuff that isn’t that difficult to figure out once you’ve made the mental decision that it’s actually important. 0:17:51.7 I want to go upstream from that.

What does content marketing represent to you? If we talked about content marketing ten years ago, twenty years ago, the tech and the video wouldn’t be there, but the concepts would be the same on a principle level, why are you attracted to it? What does it represent? And what kind of commitments does it call out of you?

Michael: 0:18:16.6 Great question. That is absolutely upstream. You know, the camera doesn’t matter. You know, you can do everything from the iPhone if you really wanted.

It really, I think, comes down to two things and that’s trust and value. 0:18:31.8 We’re – in property management, especially, we get somebody on the phone and we just want to close them.

0:18:43.4 And sometimes we get frustrated, “Argh, they’re not doing this.”

But we’ve got to understand that these clients are turning over what often represents their largest retirement investment. 0:18:59.6 This is a make it or break it thing for them. 0:18:59.8 And they’re going to go with the person that they trust and that brings them the most value.

0:19:08.0 I mean, for crying out loud, we elected an American president based on the fact that people felt they could have a beer with him.

You know, people select the property manager that they use often with that same kind of mentality and they don’t necessarily verbalize that or think that. It’s just a feeling that they have.

0:19:29.9 You can present an absolute factual case, and this is what we often do in our sales calls, unfortunately. An actual factual case why you are the best in your market.

0:19:42.8 Why, logically, they must go with you and we’re throwing up our hands and going, “Gosh, what the heck? Why did they choose somebody else that the correct choice was so clear?”

0:19:53.1 And it’s because they just trusted somebody else more. In the book, They Ask You Answer 0:20:01.5 that’s a great example of the need to build trust and the impact that that has is – you just answer people’s questions, and as they trust you they choose to use you.

0:20:12.7 The other one is value. People are only willing to spend money with you if whatever you’re offering they value more than the money that they’ll be giving you. 0:20:28.0 They must see the value that you offer.

And so often we’re just saying, “Hey use us, use us, use us”, rather than – heck, teach them how to manage a rental property. 0:20:41.4 They’ll figure out that it’s better to go somewhere else.

0:20:44.0 In fact, if you’re the one that’s been teaching them for so long and helping them to be successful, in their minds, there’s no one else that they trust. There’s no one else that they value more. There is no other property management company that exists other than the one that helped make them successful. 0:21:01.7

And so when it is time to make that decision, nobody else gets that call. Because you already have the trust, they already see the value, they’ve already seen the things that you do and taught them to work for them in their lives. 0:21:17.9 You know?

21:19 And that’s the difficult thing with content creation and doing things like that, is that it’s not an overnight thing. Anything worth doing is worth doing every day. 21:26 Grant Cardone said that. And I believe that.

And you have to be consistent over a long period of time and all of a sudden, man, the leads and the people contacting you and just saying, “Hey just sign me up,” They start to come.

Jordan: 0:21:47.4 Yeah. And anything worth doing is also worth doing poorly. Which means, when you suck, because it’s actually a craft. It actually takes time to develop the skill set and the abilities.

0:21:59.0 So talk to me about that. Let’s just start there. Talk to me about getting out of your own way and getting comfortable sucking in public, which is what it looks like to record videos of yourself before you’re polished. You know.

Videos 1 through 10, 1 through 100, whatever it may be, are not going to look anywhere close to video 1000.

0:22:21.2 So, did you have some hangups in that regard and if so, what did you have to do to get out of your own head in that regard?

Michael: 0:22:27.8 Boy, I absolutely – I’m the worst. I was the worst. I have known that I needed to do this for years. Years and years. And I’ve been paralyzed, and just like you said, in my own way because I want it to be perfect.

0:22:44.3 And it really took me building a studio, a recording studio, in my office, with lights, with a television. I wish you could see it – television background and green screen if I want it, and all that kind of stuff.

0:22:57.5 And the reality is, is that’s not even really what builds trust. Gary Vaynerchuk is a great example of that.

I mean, he built a multi-million dollar business in wine library, and looks like he’s sitting at his kitchen table, recording on his phone, cursing like a sailor, talking about how this bottle of wine tastes like a dirty sock and this one tastes like this.

0:23:19.1 And people identify with that because that’s what they would do. That’s how they would think. And the only thing Gary also – I mean, another Gary Vaynerchuk thing is he said, “You don’t have to create anything, just document.

Jordan: 0:23:38.1 Document, don’t create. Ah man I love that.

Michael: 0:23:41.3 Yeah, don’t create, just document. Every single one of us that owns a property management company has employees come in every single day and ask important questions that should be documented.

0:23:54.9 I have a camera in my office ready to go at any time. Somebody comes in, I don’t even know what the question is, “Hey I got a question, do you have a sec?”

“Yeah I do. Roll it. Just press record for me.”

And just record yourself answering these questions. And you know, some of them are just going to be horrible. And you have a delete button for some of those.

And every once in awhile you say something really good. 0:24:19.7 And that’s what people need to hear. And heck, you can even introduce the video beforehand.

Say, “Hey one of my employees came in, talked to me about this, just wanted to relate this to you. It’s a really important topic about – a thing you need to know about this. And here we go. And then here’s the answer to this question.”

0:24:38.9 And just document. A lot of us have morning meetings. Maybe weekly office meetings. Just document, record those things. If nothing else, for training purposes. Now you don’t have to repeat yourself. 0:24:54.3

0:24:56.0 Now, as we train employees internally and we sit down with them and talk with them about their job, what’s expected of them, how to do what they do, we just document that.

And now, the next time we hire that employee, we don’t have to say all that stuff again.

We just tell them to press record. “Go through this module today. Oh you’ve got a question about this? Great, go through this module.” 0:25:20.5 And yeah, that’s a great tool for us.

Jordan: 0:25:22.6 So I think with the concept of packaging or presentation and the gap that always exists between form and function, meaning it’s always easy for me to think that I’ve created this thing, whether it’s a piece of software or it’s a piece of content, and thinking that functionally, this thing is good enough. It does its job as intended if used properly.

0:25:44.4 But the delta is between that and the packaging. The presentation. The perception that is created in the mind of the consumer, whoever I’m putting that in the hands of. The perception that they have of it is directly related to their ability to draw – to how they experience it.

And how they experience it is how they’re going to get value from it. So, the things that you just articulated: document versus creation, etc.,

I was at a South by Southwest event last night, which is going on here in Austin, and I was just kind of – I was noticing a couple of VIPs and how they are treated. The handlers that they have, etc.

The VIP that I noticed could have been a homeless guy that had just had a nice clean shave and a new suit put on, I don’t know. Never met the guy.

0:26:39.8 But his body language, the way people were relating to him created a certain perception that was reality for me as I was seeing what’s happening.

0:26:48.6 And would have been the reality I would have drawn forward had I had a conversation with that person.

0:26:51.9 In the same way, if there were film crews in your office, whoever you are listening right now, running a property management business, if film crews showed up in your office tomorrow, and prospects or clients came by, what do you think they would infer from that? 0

:27:09.0 What would they infer from the fact that you had a film crew present? If nothing else, it would infer that there was something interesting happening here. That the overall inferences that something is happening that is worth filming.

0:27:23.4 And in the same way, when you choose to turn that camera on yourself, with this whole document versus create mindset, simply by turning the camera on yourself, simply by documenting what’s happening, you’re creating a certain perception in the mind of the consumer.

0:27:39.7 Even if what you have to say isn’t necessarily different than what ten other guys in your market would say if the camera was turned on them.

0:27:44.1 It’s really just a matter of who’s going to have the wherewithal to actually do it. Once everybody is filming the camera – once everybody is turning the camera on themselves, then we have a different situation right? And markets are always getting more efficient.

0:27:59.8 So, video is the rage right now because it’s the arbitrage opportunity. Ten, twenty years from now, video is going to be ubiquitous and then it’s going to be something else. It’s going to be voice, I don’t know what it’s going to be.

0:28:10.3 But with the opportunity that exists right now is just to start. Because it’s not more ubiquitous. I love that document versus create mindset.

0:28:21.3 So talk me through some of the actual practical applications now of where you’re doing content marketing.

Are you sending video to prospects? Are you using it more for customers? More for employee training? What’s the actual practical application that you’re most focused on currently?

Michael: 0:28:37.3 Yeah. I can’t even, I can’t even say what we are focused on the most. I think it’s an equal, across the board, consistent focus on all of the above.

Because all of the above happens every single day. So, I break it down, just for lack of a better word, I call them brands.

0:29:02.1 I really learned this in the social media world, where I had a – I have a Instagram thread and it was mostly about mountain biking.

Well, as almost 40 years old – I was a wrestler, you know, growing up and through college, and I coach and stuff and I thought it would be fun to go and compete again, so last Olympic year I decided to go out and compete at the national tournament and stuff like that, and I posted some photos of that stuff.

0:29:32.9 Well, I noticed that my followers just all of a sudden tanked. No one was interested in a wrestling photo.

They were following me for one specific purpose and that was the mountain bike. As soon as something showed up on their feed that wasn’t consistent with the things that they were interested in, then they dropped off.

0:29:54.7 And so, I have different brands that I have created. All me, but just different threads with different subjects.

One’s about family and how to spend time with your kids. And one’s about just doing great things in life.

0:30:10.0 And so, the same thing with the videos and the content that we create. Each of them have different brands and you need to be consistent within that brand.

It can change, but just, you know, as you get better, like you mentioned, but it can’t change frequently. You just – I’m going to pick this backdrop and I’m going to roll with it. 0:30:30.1 And I’m going to roll with this backdrop and this brand.

0:30:33.6 Your podcast has a brand. The second you start talking about things that don’t help property management companies be profitable, you will find that your listeners drop off. People stop listening to you. Because they’re listening for one reason, and that’s the brand that you have for your podcast.

And so each of these videos is different. So we have one that began with just – I noticed – I’m reading tons of things. I’m going to conferences.

I just spent three days with Grant Cardone. 0:31:01.0 I went out to the 10X Con and another time – or just recently – so the three days with Grant and Elaina was out in Miami, and I just went out with, you know, Damon John and Ed Mylett, and all these guys out to 10X Con.

I’m learning all these things, I’m pumped, I’m excited. 0:31:22.9 And I come back and I start communicating in a certain way and I’m wondering, “Gosh, why aren’t my employees understanding what I’m saying?”

It’s because they don’t know. They don’t know what I’m saying. When I use a particular word in a particular way, it’s based on the experiences that I’ve had and the things that I’ve learned.

0:31:40.4 And so one of those brands is just started – started sending videos to my employees about the things I’m reading that day. 0:31:48.6 And just short little two-minute videos and now we can communicate.

0:31:53.7 One day I had somebody come up to me and say, “Hey, I’d like to get those videos.”

And so I started emailing that fellow. And it started to grow bigger and bigger and I said, “Man, we might as well put this on social media.”

I don’t speak about property management, I don’t have a logo behind me, nothing. 0:32:10.9 And we start signing up owners because they’re like, “Man, this is added value to me. What does this guy do anyway? Oh, I’ve got a property, I’ve got a friend that does that with a property. I trust this guy. I’m getting value from this guy”, and I don’t say a word about property management.

0:32:25.9 That is what value does. You don’t even have to talk about it. If you’re adding value to people’s lives, your business will grow. 0:32:32.1 So that’s one.

Another one is just speaking specifically to investors. 0:32:37.5 What should you be looking for in a rental property. Where should you be thinking, where you should get financing. And all that kind of stuff.

0:32:47.0 Another one is speaking to people managing their own property. Here’s how you manage your own property.

0:32:52.1 Another one is employee training videos.

0:32:55.5 Another one is communicating to our clients. One of the biggest ways that we fail as property managers is we fail to properly educate the clients that we have now.

And we throw, you know, we’re throwing up our hands and our employees are, you know, yelling down the hall, “Ah, I hate this owner, they just don’t get it!”

0:33:13.9 Well, that’s your fault. Take responsibility. That’s your fault for that failure because you failed to properly educate those clients.

0:33:23.0 Here’s a great example: The regulation for water heaters is about to change. Where water heaters are going to be about $150 dollars more expensive because the government decided, “Hey we need to get involved in water heaters so we’re going to pass this regulatory requirement to make them have this also.”

And so, it’s sending the cost of water heaters going up. 0:33:46.3 We simply educated our clients. Send them a video.

Sent out an email saying, “Hey, if your water heater is 8 years or older, you should really think about replacing it. It’s going to go out in the next couple years. It’s going to be at least $150 dollars more expensive. And in other markets, like in Portland it’s even more expensive than that so you should really think, if your water heater is this age, you should really think about replacing it.”

0:34:15.4 I can’t even tell you. We can’t even keep up. And all we did was provide information. That’s your job. The client will make the decisions they will make, but if you’re not giving them the proper information, if you’re just saying, “Hey you need to replace your water heater,” they’re not going to do it.

0:34:35.9 “Why is it broken?”


“Then no, I’m not going to do it.”

0:34:37.8 But the second we provide information and education, then all of a sudden, they do exactly – they start making the decisions that we would make.

0:34:49.1 So if your clients are not making the decisions that you know are in their best interest, you need to take a look at you as a company and not at the clients.

The clients that you have are a product of you and your involvement with them and how you educate them and teach them and train them to be successful.

Jordan: 0:35:09.9 Couldn’t agree more. Let’s talk about some of the ways that you can influence.

What you just talked about is a good example that relates to service, adding value, loyalty, brand affinity.

Ultimately, that relates to a client retention. At the end of the day people leave, not because they’re upset, or because they’re angry, but just because of apathy. That tends to be the number one reason people leave.

0:35:31.2 They’ve stopped feeling anything towards your brand and therefore it’s very easy – it’s a low bar for somebody else to stimulate feelings of interest or loyalty and poach one of your clients away from you.

But if we graduate beyond loyalty, if we graduate beyond retention, there’s also the revenue opportunity.

0:35:49.4 How do you think about your interests interests in owning more than one property and what are your thoughts on positioning your brand to help provide a journey and a wealth creation experience and kind of acting as a guide in that capacity?

Michael: 0:36:07.1 Ah great question. Simon Sinek in the book, Start with Why, really started me on the path to that very thing.

Simon Sinek said, “People don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it.” You are driven to do the things that you do. You love doing the things that you do for a particular reason.

0:36:26.9 And he calls it your ‘why’. My ‘why’ is helping people to accomplish their goals and dreams.

0:36:33.1 For years, we’ve been asking our clients, “Hey what are your goals? What are you trying to accomplish? Oh you want to keep this property only for five years?”

And it changes the way that we manage the property. 0:36:44.7 It changes – you know we may not suggest, in fact, we don’t suggest to the client that we know is going to sell the property in the next couple years – they didn’t even get that email about the water heaters because it’s not in my best interest.

0:36:57.1 But it’s totally different for the guy that’s managing – or keeping the property for 30 years and wants to pay it off.

0:37:05.6 Where we really failed is educating our clients as to what they should do. They were telling us what they want to do, it’s our job to educate them about what they should do and put them on a path to that.

0:37:16.3 So, our realization in the way that we failed our clients is we allowed them to just keep one property.

We’ve allowed them to make the decisions about their real estate investment portfolio and we were failing to educate them.

0:37:32.9 The reality is, is to two different things. Number one: Your clients who only have one rental property are at the greatest risk for failure. 0:37:41.0

If you look at the problems that you have with clients and their frustrations and they’re yelling and screaming. The ones that leave, I will bet that most of them only have one rental property.

0:37:55.9 And the reason why is that they’re at the greatest risk. When – you know, they don’t have other sources of revenue to be able to handle when the furnace goes out or things like that. They’re at the greatest risk for failure.

0:38:06.8 So that’s number one that we have failed, is that we have allowed so many of our clients to have one rental property and then just let them stay there without educating them and telling them why they need to own multiple, and then putting them on a plan and a path to do that.

0:38:26.8 Now, all of a sudden, the problems that start coming up are in a totally different context. And they have a totally different mindset.

No one purchases a rental property just to have one rental property. Well, they may but it’s the mindset behind the purchase that we need to understand. 0:38:51.4 And that is freedom. Freedom. And early retirement. 0:38:56.9 And wealth creation and all these things.

They go and they sell their wives on, “Oh we’re going to – we gotta get this rental property and we’re going to be wealthy.”

0:39:07.5 And they saw something on late night television and they bought some program or something like that. They had some friend that’s doing it.

0:39:13.9 All of them are in it for one reason and that’s freedom and wealth creation. But then they stop at one. And they stop at one because nobody’s telling them that they need to buy more. And more importantly, no one’s putting them on a path to do that. And that’s my fault.

0:39:30.5 And so, it’s a change in communication from the very start. Imagine talking to potential clients and saying, “You have one house. Well let me tell you, that’s not enough. My job is to create wealth and freedom for you and your family.”

Jordan: 0:39:47.8 Alright. So, everybody would love to own lots of real estate, but to actually get there, what you’re talking about is stimulating the thoughts. Stimulating the aspiration or the interest.

But then what about the mechanics? 0:40:00.6 This is where I think that a lot of times it breaks down, because for any property management company that knows that they manage on average around 1.4, 1.5 properties per owner, they’d love to see that number go up.

0:40:17.8 Starting off by stimulating interest – and I guess really the first step is – when somebody actually expresses that they want to buy, helping them do it.

The next step is actually stimulating interest, stimulating the awareness of the opportunity to purchase, but the step beyond that is actually having some mechanics in place to grease the skids and to facilitate the process.

0:40:40.5 Whether that looks like putting inventory in front of them, deal syndication, a million different flavours of what that could look like, but what are your thoughts on going forward where the opportunities are around actually making it easier for them to walk through that process?

Jordan: 0:40:57.9 Yeah, good question. That’s part of our content creation. So one of our brands is interviews with experts. And so we just bring in experts. Bring in real estate agents. We bring in 0:41:07.6 [Inaudible] companies. We bring in mortgage companies, commercial lending. Plumbers or electricians, you know, all these types of things. You know, to help educate the clients.

0:41:17.8 And they’re doing the educating. They’re the experts in those things. 0:41:21.5 I’m the expert in property management, I’m not the expert in finding the right rental property.

I can tell you what you’re going to be looking for, but as far as me going out and pounding the pavement and finding it, I’m not going to do that. I don’t have the time.

0:41:36.8 And so, I had to come to the realization that there’s a lot of other people that know a lot more about it than me. There are experts in those things and my job is to connect those individuals.

0:41:51.1 So, much of that, the introductions and the initial plan and things like that, as far as much of the education, as far as the contacting of the client, and the implementation of the plan, you just have to have a good team in place.

And not necessarily team as in those employed directly by you, but experts that you rely on. You lead a pool of the greatest real estate investment and real estate agents that are in your market. They need to be talking to your clients and things. 0:42:29.4 And so, that’s incredibly important. I just turn it over to them.

Jordan: 0:42:34.6 So let’s talk a little bit about one example. Deal syndication, for example. We talked a little bit about multi-family recently in a separate conversation.

How do you think about the opportunity that exists for existing owners to invest incremental dollars into additional real estate in the easiest way possible?

0:42:52.5 Because the truth is, people are looking for a return. Looking for ROI and whether or not they’re buying pork bellies or multi-family units or student housing, that is the ultimate goal.

Now there’s some inherent advantages to owning real estate, but even that said, you can own real estate in a million different ways.

0:43:10.9 Through having actually – owning the home outright, through using different forms of debt leverage, through a 0:43:19.1 [Inaudible]. All different ways to do it.

How do you think about what really are some of the potential opportunities that could be in front – could be put in front of existing clients to make it easier for them to take incremental steps towards this vision as opposed to having to get over a huge barrier and a huge hurdle to take any form – to make any form of progress at all?

Michael: 0:43:49.4 Gosh. That’s a – I think that’s a difficult question to answer. The incremental part – well first comes from the realization and tell me if this is really answering your question and where you’re headed with this, or not – is incremental in the fact that we have to understand that when push comes to shove, single family property, single family investment real estate is a bad, long-term investment. For many different reasons. 0:44:24.4 If your plan is to pay it off – and is this where you were headed?

Jordan: 0:44:29.6 That’s where you’re headed brother! You’re going to need to unpack that one here. I don’t know how much head nodding we’re going to get from all the other listeners on the podcast, but you put it out there, so please tell me more.

Michael: 0:44:38.2 Yeah. So it is a bad long-term real estate investment for a number of different reasons.

We’re all familiar with the concept of return on investment. The more money that you have tied up in that property – so those of your clients who are planning on paying off that $300,000 dollar home and then reaping the benefits of the monthly rent, you know, they have a lot of money tied up in that.

0:45:04.4 And so to be able to leverage that into multiple families. But the reason I say that is, A: it has the least opportunity for the greatest return on investment. Number one.

45:14 Number two: in the single-family real estate market versus multi-family, we see it – a huge difference in that single-family rents constantly fluctuate with the market and they go up and they go down.

We saw this after the mortgage crash where rents in the single-family area kind of plummeted because there were so many coming on the market.

0:45:39.4 Now we’re seeing them increase and I’m sure at some point we’ll some of them, you know, see them decrease. But they’re constantly going up and down.

0:45:47.0 In the multi-family market, that is not the case. And it’s because the value of that property is not – doesn’t have much to do with the real estate that it’s sitting on as it does to do with the monthly cash flow that that creates.

0:46:01.5 And so, for that reason, you know, multi-family property owners would rather see a property sit vacant because the second you start advertising a lower price than everybody else in that apartment complex is paying, you’re going to have a line out the door of people saying, “Hey, I want a rent decrease. I want to move into this property.” 0:46:23.4 And so for that reason they don’t do it.

0:46:24.8 So rents in the multi-family market, they might stabilize and not go anywhere for you, but generally speaking, they only go up.

0:46:30.0 And the last one, and probably most important, especially in the volatile climate that we live in, a stroke of a pen from US Government, an increase in interest rates, you know, all of these different types of things can absolutely decimate your client’s ability to get their money out of a single-family real estate investment.

0:46:55.4 They have $300,000 dollars, let’s say, tied up in – let’s say a million dollars tied up in single-family real estate. They’re following the plan, they’re buying single-family homes, they’re doing all this stuff and it is 100 – their ability to get their money out is 100% dependent on the owner-occupied market.

0:47:16.3 Not that the cash flow real estate investment market. The real estate investors could be buying up homes but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re going to buy your home.

0:47:26.9 It is almost 100% dependent on the owner-occupied market. If people aren’t buying, then you can’t get your money out. If lenders aren’t lending, if interest rates go up to where it doesn’t make sense, you’ve gotta continue to decrease that price until finally somebody’s willing to pay. But if no one’s buying, you’re not getting your money out.

0:47:44.9 In the multi-family market, it’s completely different and it’s completely different because lenders will always lend on multi-family. Period.

Because they 0:47:56.7 [Inaudible] different. It is an asset. It is an income source. It really is a liability on the single-family home side. It’s a huge risk for them.

0:48:08.0 On the multi-family side, much less of a risk. They are way more apt to lend on that versus single-family.

0:48:18.3 In some cases, someone could be denied for a single-family rental property investment and then go on the commercial side to buy a multi-family, and be approved. Why? Because the lender counts all of the income that that asset is creating. 0:48:36.8 It’s treated entirely different.

Second – next thing about that is, not only will lenders always lend, but there will always be a buyer. Someone is always looking to buy multi-family property, regardless of what the market is doing, because they’re not buying it for the value of the property, they’re buying it for the income that property produces.

0:48:57.8 So your ability to get your money out of that investment if needed is much, much greater and less risky.

0:49:06.4 So we just tell our clients, “Hey, single-family is a great, short-term investment, but you need to get single-family and start buying up properties to produce the cash, produce the equity and to get started and to get into multi-family as quickly as possible.

Maybe even liquidate those properties, take the equity out, put it in the multi-family, make a plan, start applying for commercial loans.

See what – you know, most people, they’ve never talked to a commercial lender. They don’t even know if they would get approved or what – it’s our job to connect them with the commercial lenders today so they know what needs to happen.

They know where they need to get with their single-family home investments. I need to pay – I need to get this amount of equity, whether it’s paying down the principal or whether it’s the property increasing in appreciation. I need to get this amount of cash that I can pull out of these properties to be able to invest or whatever that – their personal situation is.

Jordan: 0:50:08.1 So I’m hearing what you’re laying down, but I don’t know how much easier we’ve made it for the average owner that has one single-family property right now and wants to participate.

Are they supposed to – because at the end of the day, them thinking about buying one more single-family property or a 20-unit apartment complex – the 20-unit apartment complex isn’t necessarily going to be any easier to buy than one more single-family home even if you say it is objectively better.

0:50:35.4 So do you have any thoughts on creative structures, syndication, owning a piece of the asset? Have you thought about ways to both get them into that asset class while also lowering the bar for entry?

Michael: 0:50:51.0 Absolutely. You know, it’s a – and we’re seeing this through Grant Cardone, perfect example of that. Cardone Capital.

You know, you’ve got to have millions of dollars to be able to invest in that and so – but each of us have the ability to start real estate investment funds and to do it that way where people can get into multi-family and start receiving, you know, monthly cash flow on a multi-family. On a much more safe investment. 0:51:24.8 To – and be able to get into that with a lot smaller initial investment in dollar amount.

0:51:33.8 So through real estate investment funds, that’s a great way. 0:51:38.6 And – but the number one thing is most of our clients just don’t know what they need to do. They want to fulfill their dreams, they want to fulfill their goals, they want to have freedom.

0:51:50.6 And oftentimes, they’ll be able to figure it out in their own situation a lot better and faster than I’ll be able to figure out, because I don’t have all the information that they do.

They could be thinking in the back of their mind, hey I want to start a business. 0:52:08.0 That’s never come up. I’m – that’s not the path I’m thinking for that client, but they might be thinking, “Gosh if I create a business and I create this amount more money, then I’ll be able to do this this much faster.”

0:52:22.3 They’ll solve their own problems. My job is to educate them, give them the information so then they can decide for themselves how to best implement that information.

0:52:32.8 The next thing is, is I need to connect them with the right people. 0:52:37.0 Most of our clients aren’t connected with a commercial lender so they have no idea what they do need to do our the path that they do need to get to.

0:52:45.6 But there’s a lot of our clients that would be in a good situation to buy a multi-family property today, and they just – they’re not thinking it because they think, “Oh yeah, a million dollars, I don’t have that kind of money.”

0:52:59.7 And they’d be mistaken in some cases. And so, just connect them, they’ll fill in the blanks.

Jordan: 0:53:07.6 So start the conversation, more awareness, work with other subject matter, experts, all of that makes sense to me. I would just go back to packaging.

You could do each of those things incrementally, or you could do so in such a way where it’s tied together and it’s branded and it’s presented as a more complete experience.

0:53:27.6 And I’m going to be like a dog on a bone going forward on this topic. I see more and more clearly the opportunity that exists for property managers to first get clear about who they are, what they’re about, to verbally articulate that via content, podcast, audio, video, whatever you’re into.

0:53:47.3 That’s just like step one. Is to get clear on your values and communicate well in a client-facing manner.

0:53:54.3 But the step beyond that is to actually help pull people through this journey and to go from fixing broken toilets and basically making sure nothing bad happens – it’s called property management for a reason, because not a lot of excitement implied or associated with the good or service by virtue, at least in part, because of its very name.

0:54:17.7 We want to transition to that to wealth creation through real estate. I’m going to teach you to be rich. And if that sounds obnoxious to you, then restate it however you like it.

But the bottom line is, people get into real estate to be able to grow their overall asset to achieve whatever life goals they have.

0:54:34.7 So, beyond just positioning and the branding, what is the most structurally concrete and specific way that you can help your clients begin that process and sustain and grow and scale through that process of growing their real estate empire?

Whether that looks like what Michael just mentioned and tying all those different pieces together in a way that feels complete and like it’s actually – it’s a real bonafide program or whether or not that looks like leading deal syndication yourself and getting known for having deal volume. And putting those in front of your clients.

0:55:12.3 Start off with just doing – starting off with just doing pocket listings for when your own clients say that they’re selling their existing inventory and putting that in front of your other clients.

0:55:22.3 You know, starting from there to graduating to where you’re actually facilitating the transactions. Are there hangups? Are there legal liabilities? Are there problems and things that can go wrong? Yeah. Absolutely.

All I know is, that the future of this industry is going to be around the companies that are starting off branding.

Starting off communicating and then graduating to really improving the service level, which has to transcend and has to be more than simply just maintaining the asset.

0:55:55.6 If we’re really going to be the trusted advisor, the steward, the person that gets paid money for thinking great thoughts, at the end of the day, that’s what an advisor and a counsellor is.

0:56:07.6 If you have any aspiration of being that kind of a person, there’s going to need to be proof and there’s going to need to be infrastructure that has to be put in place.

0:56:14.8 I’ll get off my high-horse on that point. Michael, I know that you see part of the vision there and I want to see what that looks like for you long term to flush it out.

0:56:22.3 I do want to transition now to move on to the rapid-fire section of the interview. I just want to get some guttural answers from you on a series of questions. 0:56:31.7 And the first one is this, what impact has wrestling – your wrestling background had on your business career?

Michael: 0:56:40.5 Once you’ve wrestled, everything else in life is a lot easier. I tell you what. 0:56:46.6 You know, when things start getting tough, at least I’m not at practice. At least I’m not cutting weight.

For my last competition, you know, I lost – had to lose 18 lbs in 48 hours. And that was horrible. Right? 0:57:03.5 And so, once you’ve done that, everything’s a lot easier.

Everybody has a different idea of what hard work is and, you know, after you’ve wrestled your idea and thought process about what working hard is, is completely different for the rest of your life.

0:57:23.2 And then, in a transitional thing, that’s really where I discovered the fact that I love helping people. Especially the youth. And helping to impact their lives.

0:57:38.2 Wrestling is just a vehicle and coaching is just a vehicle that I use to impact the lives of youth and change them forever. It’s not about wrestling. If I focus on wrestling, I’ve already failed. And making them good wrestlers. And so the focus on a coaching model is making them great people.

0:57:54.4 On a property management – on the property management side, if I focus on just property management, I’ve failed. Property management is just the vehicle that I’ve chosen to impact the lives of other people. To make them better, to help them be free, to help them retire early. 0:58:11.9 That’s the vehicle I use to impact the lives of families. 0:58:17.3 And I love it.

Jordan: 0:58:21.6 I see a common thread amongst the ultra successful. Not the pretty successful but the ultra successful.

There’s a lot of common threads, no doubt, but one that I’ve observed is that when put on the spot and asked to distil it all down to one success principle, I’ve seen another of folks – I’m thinking Richard Branson, I’m thinking Tim Ferriss – I’ve seen them articulate exercising and physical fitness, which is so interesting to me.

It’s so easy to relate to that fitness discipline as a nice to have. An atta-boy, pat yourself on the back sort of thing.

But it keeps coming up for me as being something that the ultra successful commit to no matter what. 0:59:06.0 And with a very unclear ROI other than they just know it’s a part of the commitment engine that keeps them on track. So, I love that answer.

0:59:14.9 Next question for you is, what advice do you have on business partnerships?

Michael: 0:59:20.7 Well business partnerships is like a marriage. And divorces are nasty. There’s – it would be, if I had one piece of advice for business partnerships, if they have to happen, and in many cases they do, you have to make sure that you have a similar ‘why’. That you’re driven for the same reason.

0:59:45.3 The same thing in a marriage. I mean, I told my son the same thing. “Man, when you go to get married, there can be a lot of differences between you, but the one thing that must be consistent in all partnerships, marriage or business partnerships, it has to be your desire to accomplish the same general ‘why’.

1:00:09.0 And, you know, if I were to pick a business partner, they could have lots of different skills, but if they are not truly committed and driven to help people accomplish what they want to accomplish and help them be the best version of themselves, that partnership will not work out. 1:00:27.1 We will never be able to communicate and I would say that is the number one thing.

Jordan: 1:00:32.3 I love it. Yeah. Gotta have the same ‘why’. I’ve experienced it myself when there’s misalignment on that. Lot of pain can come from it. It’s worth doing the the due diligence on the front side. 1:00:42.0 Who do you learn from?

Michael: 1:00:45.3 Everyone. It’s the greatest realization I’ve had in my entire life is the fact that everyone knows something that I don’t – but my employees – if you’re not listening to your employees, they are the greatest source for changes. If you’re not changing, if you’re not constantly learning, then you’re missing the things that absolutely need to happen in your business to be able to be sustainable over a long period of time. 1:01:19.1

You know, 1:01:19.4 [Inaudible] being Uberized every single day. Decimated. And in the – at the T0X Con, Grant Cardone’s brother, Gary, said something really interesting.

He said, you know, “We are going to go through, in the next five to seven years, an economic shift like we have ever, ever experienced in the history of the world.”

When half of all retailers 1:01:50.2 are going to be going out of business, brick and mortar retailers, there’s going to be some problems. And as a property management company, you need to have your finger on the pulse on that.

1:02:04.3 But as far as who I learn from, I read at least a book a week. And I don’t think that’s even enough. Constantly asking questions. 1:02:17.2 Everyone’s an expert at something. Find out what they’re an expert in and learn from them.

Jordan: 1:02:21.7 What’s the best book you’ve read in the last 12 months?

Michael: 1:02:25.2 Be Obsessed or Be Average. Hands down. By far.

Jordan: 1:02:30.0 Alright. Another Cardone production. Common theme. Shout out to Grant. He’s getting a lot of love on this episode.

1:02:40.0 If you could do it all over again, you could go back to the beginning of your career when you first became an operator, what’s the number one piece of advice that you would just, like, with the full intensity of your being, try and speak into the life of Michael Fisher at that point in time?

Michael: 1:02:59.4 Work on your business instead of in your business. It stunted my growth for years and years and years.

Really, with the thinking that if it needs to be done right, I’m going to do it. And it was really the realization that, “Gosh, I don’t care what I’m even the best at.”

I think – my greatest skill is sales, but there’s somebody out there way better than me. My job as a business owner, I have a duty and a responsibility to find that person, employ them and put them in the right position. 1:03:35.3 And then move on to something else.

Jordan: 1:03:40.0 Love it. Final question of the day. I ask this to every guest and I want to know for you, Michael Fisher, do you believe that entrepreneurs are born or bred?

Michael: 1:03:50.3 That is so hard. They are, I think a product of both.

Really, I mean, the whole nature versus nurture argument – I would say if I had to choose one, they would be bred. I think a great example is what I called the first instance.

1:04:14.7 Many people don’t even believe that certain things are possible. 1:04:20.1 And if they do believe that they’re possible, I mean, they’re seeing other people accomplish these things, they don’t believe that they’re possible for them.

And, you know, not to religious on everybody, but hopefully, you know, everybody can at least relate to the story. You have Jesus and he’s walking out on the water and you’ve got the disciples and they’re out on the boat, and, you know, they say, “Hey who are you?”

And he says, “Hey it’s Jesus!”

And Peter, he says, “Hey if it’s really you, then tell me to walk out on the water.”

What he’s really saying is, is, “Well, I believe that this is impossible and really, and if it’s really you, I believe that I can do it if you tell me I can do it. If you tell me I can do it and it’s you, then I’ll be able to do that.”

And sure enough he says, “Alright, hey, come out on the water. Come take a walk.”

And he steps out on the water and he walks on the water.

1:05:24.0 And that’s, from a principle standpoint, some people just need to be told that it’s possible for them.

Now when you see something in someone and tell them what you see – that the potential that they have, you will become one of only three or four individuals in their entire life that see them that way. And they will love you forever.

1:05:50.9 And we each have a responsibility to constantly tell people what we see in them and their potential and I think that is one of the greatest things and reasons why I would say that great entrepreneurs are bred.

Because so many people have the ability, they have the skills, they’re born with all the skills. 1:06:12.6 And I think everybody’s born with all the skills to be able to be a great entrepreneur.

Now you go to 10X con, and it really introduced me to the fact that man, these guys are nothing special. They’re multi-millionaires, billionaires, and man, they’re just like me. They’re just like me. And that’s totally true. They just acted on some of those things.

1:06:37.4 Somebody in their life told them that they could do it. And they believed them. And I think once people are told that – that has to happen first.

They have to believe that it’s – not only possible and possible for them, but have that grow into the fact that, man, this is probable. This is going to happen for me. Because I’m just as good as that guy, and he doesn’t have anything special.

1:07:12.1 Hey, I’ll just duplicate what that guy’s doing and I’ll do it. And I think that’s the great thing about the world that we live in today. All you gotta do is YouTube it and you’ll be 1:07:22.2 [Inaudible] at something. And everybody can be a millionaire.

Jordan: 1:07:28.7 Man, that’s the beauty of living in this country. Isn’t it? Everything you just said has some hard limits growing up in Soviet Russia, or in communist China, but in this country, if you believe it, you can achieve it, man. It’s mind blowing.

1:07:43.8 And what you said really resonated with me. 1:07:48.1 That was very much my life experience in terms of just making some basic assumptions that I could achieve what was modelled for me in certain areas.

And that was a huge enabling factor in my life. Never got a handout but having some role models that were successful and said, “Hey, you know, you should do this too.”

1:08:09.9 It’s downhill skiing compared to being told that you’re nothing and you ain’t going to make it and having the opposite of success modelled for you.

I think that’s probably one of the better answers that I have heard in the bred category and I think that’s as succinct as we’re going to hear in terms of what can be said in favour of the nurture/bred side of the equation.

I personally think there’s a born component as well that specifically relates to embracing and learning to enjoy long-term suffering. 1:08:38.9 But there’s definitely a mix of the two in there.

1:08:42.3 I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to come on the show. I’m wishing you success.

1:08:46.8 For folks that want to follow what you’re up to, see a little bit more about the content marketing that you’re putting out, what’s the best place for them to go? 1:08:54.9

Michael: 1:08:57.1 Gosh, you know, and I talked about consistency, but I haven’t been as consistent, you know, personal things going on just recently – but, you know, if you just want a good example of just general content that really has nothing to do with your industry, just something that you’re passionate about, that will produce business for you, there’s nothing on there about what property management is, people the message resonated and they sought out, gosh what does this guy do – it would be, you know, check out Instagram and Dream Driven Life.

Jordan: 1:09:35.5 Dream, Driven Life on Instagram. Go check it out. Mike, thanks again for coming on the show. We’re going to follow what you’re up to on Instagram and I just want to reiterate that I love where you’re coming from, I think mindset is the differentiating factor. I appreciate you modelling that within your business.

Michael: 1:09:53.8 Thanks so much.